$1/2 mid day, full ring, $300 max buy in. Promotion $300 high hand per hour, 10 tables running. Brings in a few fish

Hero $850 - MAWG semi-reg, thinking player, table image TAG
Villain $600 - mid-50's WG, plays occasional 1/2, plays every hand, takes lead on betting with pair or better
BTN $325 - OMC, Nit
Non-player - young, mid-30's regular, this is his job, mirrored glasses, hoodie thinking player TAG.

Hero UTG 2 2
Villain HiJack KJ
BTN unknown cards

Hero limps $2 UTG
4 players limp to BTN, BTN bets $10, Hero and Villain call.
POT $39

Flop 2 J K

Hero figures out of position, either villain or BTN will initiate bet if they connected.

Hero check, Villain check, BTN bet $15, hero and villain call
POT $84

Hero assumes villain range 66-99, 15% less TT-AA
BTN range 20% less TT-AA

Turn 3

Hero check, villain check, BTN bet $22, hero raise $50, villain call, BTN call.
POT $234

Hero puts villain on 2 pair, BTN on AK or AJ. Having shown strength on turn, hero plans on donking river PSB for villain to call or shove.

River Q

Hero donks $225. Villain tanks for 3 minutes and hero is expecting the call. Non-player calls time. Villain tanks 30 seconds and folds, BTN folds.

Villain then says he thought hero might have rivered 2 pair, KQ but really was thinking hero had AK, AQ, AJ - which to me are not limping hands UTG, goes to demonstrate villain's line of thinking.

I believe given another minute, unpressured, he would have called. He said he definitely would have called $100 but did not believe I was playing a set.

For the next 5 minutes villain and clock caller bickered about calling the clock on him, hero remains silent. Internally though I'm steaming and didn't say anything to the clock calling regular because I don't think it's going to change any behaviors, improve the game or have any positives.

That being said, would you have confronted him about calling time when not involved in the hand and it wasn't unreasonably long; and if so, what would you have said?

I never would confront someone about calling the clock. But you'll get widely varied opinions on here because it's a topic that comes up frequently and it's a very polarizing issue.

I feel that decisions that take more than ten seconds shouldn't come up more than once or twice in a session. Three minutes is WAY off the reservation in terms of a reasonable amount of time to make even a very difficult decision; as such, I feel that the guy who called clock did the right thing. The guy who was tanking for three minutes was disrespecting the time of everyone at the table by holding up the game that long.

Three minutes is unreasonably long for a 1/2 game facing this decision. How long do you believe one of the other uninvolved players sitting around the table should feel obligated to just sit there and wait for villain to act?

In general, people will get a bit more testy about spectating a tanker when a promo like hourly HH are running. I've seen many examples, from FoxSun, HRs in Florida, pomp park, Naples, etc.

The fact that the clock-caller is not in the hand is irrelevant. He's at the table, in the game. In many ways, it makes more sense for a player not in the hand to be the one to call the clock, as they are more likely to be doing so without any bias. There are many times where I've made a bet, and am waiting on the villain. I feel that if I call the clock it is likely to push them more to one decision, the one I don't want them to make. So, I'm not going to call the clock. But if somebody else calls the clock, it won't necessarily have the same effect on them. Always fine for any player to call the clock, once enough time has passed. 3 minutes in a cash game is plenty of time.

Cheers, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

A few issues here IMO ... But at 1/2 you can expect these types of things ..

1) Would I confront a reg? Yes I would, maybe not at the table depending on how well I know the guy. This was a 3-way pot and I don't really care that it was 1/2. 1/2 is some people's 'Super Bowl' and you need to let them have their moment if they feel that they need to take it ... in most cases. I would tell the reg that the next time he is in this spot that it would be much more 'classy' if he were to simply ask the dealer who action is on. That simple question is enough to alert the player that the table is getting concerned about the lack of action.

2) Was it really 3 minutes? One of the things I've been doing lately is after about what I think is 90 seconds I just pull out my phone and start the timer, putting the phone on the table in front of my chips. This does 2 things. First, it gives the table a real sense of time as things always seem slower when you aren't involved. And secondly it lets the 'acting' player know that we are getting concerned about the time. Clock hasn't been called, but it will be called 'soon'. Since I've started this the acting player usually takes less than 40 seconds to make a decision with only 1 time where it went 2 minutes and then an official clock was called.

3) I've called clock twice when not in the hand. One time the player actually said 'thanks' afterward and the 2nd time the player said it took him out of his thoughts and was mad at me for calling it, which led him to make a bad call in his opinion.

I don't disagree with Greg's assessment above, but in a 3-way pot I may wait a little bit longer before stepping in (see #2 above) ... it's irrelevant that it was 1/2 or that there was a promotion going on at the time. Don't fall into these 'distractions' as an excuse to justify potentially unusual behavior.

OP .. getting away from the guts of the post. Why such a small raise on the Turn into 2 players? You are announcing strength and not really getting value or setting up to get B's stack (or a call from V) on River 'easier'. I think the raise was 'correct' but even if I do this with a flush draw I want to go a bit more. Then you can shove the River (as you did) 'when the flush misses' perhaps. Apparently even a bet of $100 wouldn't have looked like value to V ... who were you going after? Your image of V is that he takes the lead when he has a pair (which he didn't do on any street) and/or did you expect B to over call once he bet out so weak on the Turn?

I'm not saying that I wouldn't bluff-over-shove an occasional River, but I think I do want a little more value (or pot bloating with draws) if I'm going to raise this Turn OOP. GL

Disagree. You are no longer in the hand stay out of it.

The remaining players can be affected/rushed by your decision, and I also don't want players that folded communicating to players in the hand about their action.

In a cash game I'll never call the clock because I can just get up and walk around or whatever. But in a tournament it's fair game for anyone at the table to call the clock because you need to be able to see hands and accumulate chips.

i'd be more concerned with how you made the bare minimum with the hand than people calling the clock.
raise the flop- if for some reason you don't raise the turn like a man.

tanking for 3 min is absurd- the player had every right to call the clock.

I've never called the clock in my life. But you are wrong. Anyone at the table can and should call it if someone is taking too long. We came to play poker, not watch some idiot think.

Flop and turn are misplayed, but that's not the point of the thread.

3 minutes is plenty of time to make a decision. People came to play poker, not to sit around and wait for an unreasonable amount of time. The player had every right to call the clock and shouldn't have to justify doing so.

Being a rec player, sitting there for 3+ minutes (and if you believe it was 3, I'd bet it was at least 5) is unacceptable. I came to play and I have limited time. I would have no problem if someone called clock on me if it was taking me more than a minute to act.

this is 100% wrong

I'm paying time and you're costing me time and hands dealt per hour tanking, and if I feel it's a trivial decision I'll call clock on you every single time.

With that said, if you're not a habitual tanker, then once in a while in a large pot you can pretty much take your sweet time for all I care.

I disagree with this 100%.
I hardly ever do call time, but being in or out of the hand has nothing to do with it. Everyone at the table should have the right to stop someone from wasting everyone's time.

That's precisely the purpose of calling clock: someone in the hand has taken too long, so it's time for him/her to make a decision. If players were supposed to take however long they want to make decisions, then calling clock would not be allowed.

A lot depends on the prior actions of this player. Has he been habitually tanking for fairly insignificant or easy decisions? If so, calling clock here is completely justified to let him know this can't be going on every time he has a decision to make. If not, allowing a player some leeway to decide on a $225+ decision isn't unwarranted. Personally, once it got past three minutes is when I'd start considering a clock call.

Threads like this help show why a mandatory/dealer clock make sense especially at lower stakes.

OP, you have no gripe and over-all should probably thank the clock caller/wish his behavior was a more regular thing. Three minute tanks being standard are terrible for poker.

lol this doesn't even pass the most basic scrutiny. Come on.

Greg, how many times have you called the clock on someone in the last 15 years in A. Tournaments? and B. Cash Games?

I'm gonna guess both are under 5 times.

In the last clock calling thread a video was posted where Moneymaker said he had never called the clock on anyone. The guy was clearly taking an unreasonable amount of time. Moneymaker still didn't call the clock on him.
He just didn't want to be "THAT " guy. (Guy who calls clock or wants to see the loser's hand, etc.)

Cash game - never. I prefer limit games, so people just don't ever take long enough to call a clock. And even in NL/PL games, I don't recall ever having a player take 3+ minutes on a decision.

Tournaments - At least 5 times a year. And more often in the last few years. I do adjust based upon whether the player is a chronic tanker, as well as the pot size, perceived difficulty of the decision, and other factors. I mean, if you bet half the guy's stack on the river in a heads-up pot, get raised, and need more than 10 seconds, GFY.

Cheers, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

I think one of the biggest problems in poker today is that so many people have the attitude that calling a clock is wrong. Tanking has gotten so ridiculously out of hand in small stakes NL games and tournaments. People should be calling clock much more frequently

It used to happen more back when poker was more on TV. I don't play nearly as much as you do, but I can think of 3-4 times over the last couple of year where this has happened at low stakes. I use the telephone timer trick as well, but without nearly as good results. That said, I've never called time on someone. But I have agreed with others saying that it is long enough and that time should be called.

I'm confident you don't, but too many floors act like it is a great imposition to call them over and ask to them to count it out. A quick question to the dealer about whether the player in question is a habitual time waster and a warning along with the clock being called would do some good.

This, plus next time, save us the hand history.

Nobody cares about you flopping a set vs two pair. Just skip to the part about the clocking being called.

Another reason for people not in the hand to call clock is when you're thinking hard about the hand your perception of time goes out the window. You say 3 minutes but it could have been 1 or 6 and many people would have no idea in your position.

I had one player in a tournament I was dealing act really surprised that clock was called on him and he thought I was joking when I later told him it had been 8 minutes. He was tanking a lot so I started making a mental note of the tournament clock every time action got to him so I knew my answer was right.

No limit is torturously slow and boring as it is. Three minutes is ridiculous -- more than enough time to call the clock. I've started doing it more than I used to (use to never call the clock) and I wish more people would do the same in situations like this.

I've started playing much more PLO where people just put the money in quickly.