I get what you are saying about changing bad habits that might hurt them.

My biggest pet peeve is players in the 1 or 9 seat who push their cards a fraction of an inch to fold while looking at their phone and think that is a clear signal of their intentions to fold. When asked if they are folding, they will get all huffy that you are interrupting their phone viewing and move their cards another fraction of an inch and admonish you for not paying attention.

In my mind I am like "Dude, I am just trying to protect your cards."

Playing cleanly is not that hard. 95% of players can do it. If there is confusion, take responsibility for your actions.

I have told the players in end seats, "having dealers auto-muck your cards when action gets to you is not a habit that will benefit you long term" when they do this.

If they are steadfast and the habit has been reinforced, it does make the game go faster.

I really like your answer.

I once had a player who regularly played in seat 9 and would fold by pushing his cards a fraction of an inch forward. The problem was he would do it when it wasn't his turn to act. So even though the button was in seat 1 and the cards would come out and he would look at them and move his cards a fraction of an inch forward despite it being seat 4's turn to act. Then by the time it is his turn, he is engrossed in whatever he is doing on his phone.

More than a few dealers got into arguments with him because of his actions. I got really frustrated with him one day (especially since he rarely tipped). The first time he did this during my down, (microfolded out of turn), when the action got to him I asked him what he was doing. He barked at me that he had folded a long time ago. It doesn't matter that he couldn't legally fold a long time ago. I mucked his cards and was steaming. The rest of the table was having fun and his argumentativness put a damper on the table. For some reason it got under my skin.

So a few hands later, I literally saw him microfold out of turn. When the action gets to him I verbally tell him it is his action. He barks at me without clearly describing his actions. I play stubborn/dumb and again say action is on him. He then predictably goes off on me. Easily crosses a basic line that shouldn't be crossed. Everyone at the table is silent.

I call over a floor. He comes over and I explain that the player hasn't yet acted and is berating me. The player tries to claim that he already folded. I tried to explain that action just got to him, but he is arguing over me.

Finally a player (a literal angel) speaks up and tells the floorman that the player hasn't touched his cards since the action got to him. Seat 9's argument that he already folded quickly falls apart because it means he folded out of turn.

The floorman admonishes him to act in turn and to act more clearly.

There was a long period of tension between us. A really long time. During that time I made him play clearly by the rules, but I had to be really careful because if I made even the slightest mistake, he was going to make me pay for it.

One day, he raised pre flop. Everyone folded (including the blinds), and he threw me a dollar, looked at me and made sure I saw it and acknowledged it. He literally looked me in the eye and nodded.

Since then, he still tries to microfold out of turn, but I have found a compromise. I pay attention to him doing it, and when he does it and the action gets to him I will put my hands on his cards and loudly say I am am folding your cards in 3 seconds unless he says otherwise. I count down and muck his cards. He ignores me. Ifhe doesn't want to fold, he will make sure to protect his cards. He also throws me a dollar every single hand he wins. Regardless of pot size.

Not ideal. At all.

But it preserves the peace.

**** that. I'd have been petty as hell with this guy. If action gets to him and he says. "I already folded", I'd be calling floor every time to issue him a penalty for it until he learns to grow up and play like a big boy.

The side of me that wants justice does not disagree with you. It fully supports doing this. Absolutely.

The practical side of me hates thus. Every floor call slows down the game and costs you money. Furthermore, think about how it makes you look in the eyes of the other 8 players at the table. Even though you are 100% in the right, other rec/touristy players might not see this. They might just find you argumentative. It might turn them off. Sure, if played right it might make you look like a victim and might get you more tips from the other players, but that is a dicey proposition.

My preference is just to minimize the drama and get out as many hands as possible. More opportunities for tips.

This whole discussion makes me think of a reg at a previous place I used to work. It was a place where a dollar a hand was the standard. Not only the standard, but essentially the rule. That is all you can really expect.

There was a reg who liked to poke the dealers. He refused to tip and liked to see dealers get subtly angry over not getting a tip.if he won a couple of hands in a row without tipping, he took pleasure in seeing the dealer stewing in their seat not making money. Some dealers slowed down and effectively turned off their customer service to all customers. They cost themselves money.

After he got a reaction from the dealer, he would eventually throw the dealer a tip. Often effectively more than a dollar a hand (i.e. if he won 3 or 4 hands in a short period and didn't tip, if the dealer would give him a reaction, he might throw the dealer a $5 tip.

I used to get frustrated by him. I really did. So I eventually got my tips when I let my frustration show.

Then I hit a point where I realized what he was doing. He was intentionally pushing dealer buttons. So then I reached a point where I started to show fake frustration to him in order to get the tips. I hated that. Absolutely hated it. It actually pissed me off more.

Finally I reached a point where I said eff him. He could tip me for good service or for me for being a good dealer, or he wouldn't. Either way, I was going to deal and act the same. I wasn't going to get frustrated at him. He rarely tipped me at the end.

Giving him credit he doesn't deserve, I will say I learned a good lesson due to him. I just want to deal as fast and efficiently as possible while providing tip top service to the players and in the long run my tips will reflect that.

Players tip for many reasons, many (maybe even most) beyond your control. Control what you can. Speed and customer service are what you can control. Maximize those.

I guess that's the bright side to working in the UK, I get paid a decent salary and tips are just a small part of my income as it's not a big part of our culture here. I get to be as chill or petty as I want and it barely makes a dent in my finances.

Don't get me wrong, I always want to do my best and keep the customers happy but players like this? 'You gonna learn today...'

I had one of those "you have to be effing kidding me moments" today. I am dealing at a tournament table and it is just before a tournament break.

Button in the 2 seat, folds around to the 1 seat, he raises 2.5x. Button folds, small blind folds, big blind calls. Flop comes out, big blind (seat 4) thinks for a few seconds then bets. Seat 1 tanks for a rather long time. The clock ticks down. I glance at the clock out of the corner of my eye and see 40 seconds left in the level before break. I know depending upon how soon seat one acts I will either have to be real fast (and get out another hand) or reeeaaaal slow and let the break come.

Seat 1 looks directly at the clock and sees that there are 30 something seconds left. He openly declares he is going to fold, but that he wants to wait a few seconds until the level ends. Another player says "You are saying we can leave for break now?" Then gets up. 6 players leave the table and head for break. Then with about 25 seconds left, seat one unexpectedly out of the blue throws his hand in the muck.

I am surprised by his actions. Seat 4 quickly tosses his cards forward, grabs the button and moves it to seat 3 and says "button moved". I am still stunned, so my reactions are slow. I gather my senses and push the pot to 4, I gather up the board and look up at the clock as it counts down the last few seconds of the level.

Seat 1 and seat 4 immediately start demanding that another hand should be dealt because there was still time left in the level when seat 1 folded. 6 players at the table are gone, only seats one, four and eight remain.

As I finish gathering the board and squaring the cards I say the clock had expired and the level is over. Everyone is on break. The clock had reached 0.

Seat 1 and 4 start arguing with me. I am still a bit stunned like huh?/what? I say the clock is at zero and most of the table is gone. No way am I dealing another hand. They continue to argue.

Finally a floor wanders by. We stop him and I explain the situation. He looks at me like I am an idiot (and he might be absolutely right in this situation). Both seat 1 and 4 insist that there was plenty of time to deal another hand. There is some discussion between the floor, seat one, seat four, and myself about what happened when. By now we are more than 2 minutes into the break.

The floor wisely says that now that we are so far into the break and everyone else is gone, there is no chance another hand is being dealt. Seat one and four complain a bit and then give it up and walk away.

Seat 8 stays and the floor stays. After one and four walk, the floor ask me what that was about. I tell him I genuinely do not know. I mentioned the angle of suggesting he was going to wait until the clock expired before leaving only to suddenly muck after most of the players had left. The problem was that he wasn't gaining much. Sure, seat 5 would have posted an absent big blind that could have been stolen by 1,4, or 8, but it was the first break of the tournament and it would have represented at most 5% of anyone's stack. We were hours away from the money bubble (registration was open for a long time still). The theoretical advantage would have been miniscule.

The floor shook his head and walked away muttering.

Just one of those days where the stupidest crap became a big deal.

Later, after the 2nd break of the tournament when all of the black 100 chips have been raced off, I am at a tournament table just after the player come back. Blinds are $1000/$1500. Player A raises to $3000. Player B in the big blind calls. Flop comes. Player B (big blind) declares a bet of $2700 and throws out 3 $1000 chips. I instantly declare it as a bet of $2500. They try arguing with me that they declared $2700. I try explaining that there are no $100 chips on the table. Their grasp of English is tenuous at best so there is some back and forth for a few minutes. Finally he gets it and pulls back a $1000 chip and puts up a $500 chip.

After we get that settled, I turn to the other player to see what he is going to do. He thinks for a minute or two, then asks me if it shouldn't be a $3000 bet since that is what he threw out.

I look at him trying to figure out if he is serious. He is.

I tell him that I declared it as $2500 based off of what he said. The player says that since he threw out 3 $1000 chips it should be $3000.

Here we go again. Another stupid floor call.

I call over the floor. I explain what happened, I mention the long discussion with the player who verbally bet $2700 and how there was no mention by anyone else during this discussion that it should be $3000. As I am speaking to the floor, the player who bet $2700 (who doesn't speak English very well) is getting visibly agitated. I think he is embarrassed (and now angry) that his lack of English is causing a controversy. He dramatically grabs his $500 chip back and puts out a $1000 chip angrily muttering in a foreign language (German I think). Then tries to say let's go in English. He wants to move on from all of this.

The floor sees that he is willing to bet the $3000 so he say that the bet can be $3000.

Of course once the other player hears that the bet is $3000, he raises to $12,000. The German thinks for a really long time then calls. Turn comes out, German checks, other player shoves. German thinks for a while thrn reluctantly calls. Of xourse other player has Aces, German has top pair. River a blank. Other player wins.

German is now really angry. He is talking a million miles an hour in German. He curses and gestures at me and the floor. And storms off.

It was obvious that he was angry/embarrassed at the miscommunication on his initial bet. If there was no miscommunication, he probably gets away from top pair without going broke.

Poker is a great game, but it can really suck sometimes. Miscommunication shouldn't matter this much.

I don't want to minimize the German tilting, he went on tilt and it cost him. However I do think the other player was an a-hole. I still don't know what the correct ruling was on a misdeclared bet like the initial bet of the German, but the time to bring it up was during when it was being explained to the German. Not later where it became a big deal over an insignificant $500. The guy was embarrassed enough at his error and his lack of English. Tilting him over an insignificant $500 seems petty.

Hmm, very good question. I don't see any TDA rule that covers this situation. The closest may be the rule that says that ambiguous amounts are the higher of the possibilities, up to the size of the pot, but that is clearly intended for when someone says e.g. "five" and it could mean five hundred or five thousand, not for this situation.

At game speed I probably rule the same as you, round to the closest valid bet size. As a floor I would shut down idiot #2 quickly and move on. If German is not agitated and says "whatever" and throws out the higher amount, then fine. But I'm not wasting everyone's time arguing with him over it.

As an aside, if idiot #2 is next to act, I actually don't mind him waiting until the discussion with German is over before lodging my inquiry. Arguing about two different things at once is not usually productive, especially when there is a language barrier. Obviously, if he's not next to act then it can't wait until his turn.

I don't think I've seen it in writing, but I was taught to treat verbal declarations the same as if you had thrown out that amount of chips. Someone throws out 2900 using 4x100 chips that are no longer in play, that's 2500. Declare 2900 before throwing chips in, that's 2500. I can see a floor ruling it 3000 though. 2700 though? That seems like a no brainer to round down. What if they had thrown out a 5k chip? Or 25k? Going with an "all the players were ok with it" ruling just sets you up for more annoyance later.

I'm surprised more people don't do the break thing. I wouldn't have slowed down much and dealt another hand if necessary.

It always drives me nuts when players demand to see the rule book when there's some obscure situation that requires a ruling. And it confounds me when the dealers expect all of the floors to learn to rule exactly the same way in every possible situation.

Have you ever been to a law office and seen the shelves full of law books? Is that what we expect from our poker rooms as well? No matter how long somebody has been in the business a new and different situation will always arise at some point. That's why I love rule 1 so much. "All decisions made by the floor are final."

What thrills me is when a beligerent player receives a ruling he doesn't like, demands to see the written rule, and is then shown that rule. Some time ago an entitled semi-regular clown came in and asked for a 2-5 seat.

Me: No problem sir. Have a seat here on table 2.

Asshat: But I don't like table 2. I want to play on table 3.

Me: Well table 2 has three open seats and table 3 has one open seat. I'd be happy to put you on the table change list and will move you to table 3 as soon as we get more players.

Asshat: Well I won't play on table 2.

Me: No problem. You're welcome to wait around until table 2 fills up and when it does I can put you on table 3.

Asshat: You mean you'd actually rather not have me playing and giving rake to the casino?

Me: Our policy is that we keep the tables balanced.

Asshat: This is ridiculous. I want the phone number for the manager.

[Just then 2 players walk in to play 2-5]

Me: Sir, you can have your seat on table 3 now if you like.


I had a look at our rule book, and sure enough, it said "The room will always keep identical games balanced or within 1 player in the case of seating new players and allowing table changes. This rule does not apply to must-move games."

I was ecstatic.

I took the rule book over to asshat and showed him the rule.


Asshat: Well you were right. Does that make you happy?

Me: I'm always happy, sir. And here's the poker manager's business card that you asked for.

It sounds like everyone other than you (players and dealers) thinks there should be a rule book covering pretty much anything and that floors should know the rules.

And I'm sure you do love a rule that says your decisions are final (even if wrong), but customers don't like rules being enforced unfairly. It seems to me that any business should be run to please the customers (players) first, the front line workers (dealers) second, and it should be the supervisors' job to make those people as happy as possible.

OMG. Best description ever.

If we ever get to the point where a player's knowledge of the tomes that line the poker room wall best determines who wins pots, then poker is dead.

Poker is meant to be a fun, social game. The more it is attractive to newbies who do not have deep, thorough knowledge of the arcane tomes lining the wall, the better it is for everyone.

I think that rules should cover all of the most common scenarios and that you should have supervisors who have knowledge and understanding of the game making lots of rulings for grey areas that are in the best interest of the game. That's why rule 1 exists. That's also why every rule book I've ever seen has phrases like "gross misunderstanding" to describe what to do when a player mumbles "all-in" as he tosses out a $25 chip and a player across the table announces "call". I've never seen a specific definition of "gross misunderstanding" in any rule book but I'm happy to apply it here.

I'm also willing to make a "wrong" ruling in the case of an elderly player whom I've never seen who accidentally tosses out 1 white chip and 1 green chip at a 1-2 table when it's clear that the player's intention is to call $2. I'm less willing to make that same ruling when it's a regular player at a 5-10 table. And I'm never willing to make that ruling when the player who throws out that bet is a known angle-shooter.

I've read the rule-book at my casino more than once and I can tell you that the phrase "angle-shooter" never appears in the document, but if you think that I'm going to make the same ruling for a player who's constantly trying to pervert the rules to their benefit as I am for a rec player then you're crazy.

Or it could've gone ..

AH .. "Well, if you have to balance the table then move one of those Players over here so I can play over there!"

.. "Sir, our balancing policy only applies to seating new Players."

.. "And Sir, the game is going to run whether or not you are sitting. And you Sir, don't pay any rake (or tips) since you only play 4 hands an hour." GL

Highlight of my day: During our daily tourney, two middle-aged guys are talking about the 70's song that's playing, and how it makes them feel old. One asks the other how old he is, and the other says he's 53. An old man at the table then exclaims, "53!!!... I'd been arrested on two continents before you were BORN!"

Is it just me, or are more and more players relying on dealers to announce their bets for them? It seems to me that players are getting more and more quiet when announcing their bets. To the point of absurdity.

I get that people do not want to give off auditory tells, but it has gotten crazy. Players will barely whisper that they are raising. In fact, many players are now not even giving off auditory indications that they are raising and instead are going with visual cues. If the blinds are $200/$400, they will hold up a $1000 chip and make eye contact and indicate it is a raise. Nothing auditory.

The other day I had a player who never said anything, he raised a few times preflop by holding up a $1000 chip and raising it higher in the air while making eye contact. I would announce it as a raise and he would throw it forward. One time late in my down I was looking down at my rack for some reason. Maybe I was checking seat cards, maybe I was organizing it. Whatever. In my peripheral vision I see a $1000 chip hit the felt (blinds are $200/$400). Not hearing anything, I declare it a call. Next two players fold immediately. Player then speaks up and says he raised. I state that I did not hear him raise. I know if I call the floor, he is going to ask if anyone else heard him say raise, so I shortcut it and ask the table if anyone else heard him say raise. Everyone near him shakes their head no.

I know for a fact that on his previous "raises" he never verbalized it, he did it through motions that I verbalized for him. Since I did not see these non-verbal motions, I couldn't say it was a raise. I said it was a call. I was 99% sure the floor on duty would say the same. The player grumbled but didn't argue too much. The worst part about it was that he said he declared raises but literally no one heard him. No one.

My point? Yes, a good dealer sees those non-verbal raises and calls them out. However, the biggest thing most players do not realize is that dealers have responsibilities that go beyond running the game. Sure, good dealers can do both, but there is no doubt that even the best dealers are distracted on occasion.

Furthermore, players need to realize that when they take shortcuts and use non-verbal communication, they are relying on the dealer being good and figuring out what they mean.

Relying on a dealer to be be good and understand what you mean with vague actions is a recipe for failure. Eventually you will get a dealer who doesn't catch what you are laying down. Regardless of their skill.

Play cleanly and speak up about your actions.

What makes this even more frustrating/ironic is that this seemed to be a day where every other player was wearing headphones and couldn't hear anything.

More than once a player would raise with one chip and I would clearly and loudly announce it, another player would call (again loudly announced), and then a late player would physically remove his headphones and ask what the action was.

There is literally no situation that is more deserving of a kick in the balls.

Yesterday I was at a table where the blinds were $200/$400. A player throws in a $1000 chip and I announce it as a call. The next player throws in $1200 and I announce it as a raise. A couple of folds to a player who removes his headphones and asks about the action. I point at the $1000 chip and say it is a call and then point to the $1200 bet and say it was a raise. He then looks at his cards, thinks for a while then folds.

The next player then removes his headphones and asks about the action.

How is it not legal for me not to murder him in this situation?

I haven't noticed a trend but it could be regional. Players will all start doing some new thing and not even realize it.

It was really bad at the WSOP when I started doing that 10 years ago. I remember one hand where the blinds were 200-400. It folds to the SB who throws a 1k chip on top of his 200 without saying anything. I announce call. A long discussion ensues where he makes his case that it should be a raise but I stay firm and say it's a call, 400 to you then point at the BB.

BB looks over at the 1200, pulls back 200 and throws out a 1k. I announce a raise. He argues that he was just calling and claims I never said anything.

I finally talk him down and tell the SB action is on him. He looks at me like I'm an idiot for not just putting out a flop when he obviously has 1200 out there already. FML.

The thing to do in my area (Tampa) is checking dark on the upcoming street when first to act. It's ridiculous, and it's rampant. I have no idea what they think they're accomplishing. but they see other people do it, so that's a good enough reason I guess. Sometimes it's even the PF raiser that does it. And of course a good percentage of the time the other players don't hear the check (or me repeating that it's a check), so the player next to act just sits there waiting, thus rendering ineffective whatever magic the dark check was intended to conjure up.

To answer your initial question, yes it is just you because you are allowing it. The over sized chip rule is that the player must verbally announce raise. I don’t care what nonverbal cues a player uses, if they throw out an over sized chip without announcing raise I am ruling it a call 100% of the time. Once they understand this they will never not verbalize it again.

What's the etiquette on assisting dealers from the wide seats (ends of the table) ? Like, if I wanna push chips or the button, to help out, should I always confirm first o is it more acceptable from, say 2 & 7 (8 handed table) to just do it because of the reach?

I never want to disrupt dealer routine but also feel bad if I'm slow to help

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Also, PSA for players. Normalize keeping your hands out of the pitch zone to avoid accidental exposed cards. I'd say in my experience 80% of the exposed cards on the deal are because dealers hit the players hands during the pitch. And 95% of that could have been prevented by keeping your hands back.

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It is my experience where you are going to get a bunch of floor calls where the floor is going to rule against you (and think you are an idiot) and they players will think the same.

I think the biggest issue is that if a player is going to raise by making eye contact and using physical cues, he really needs to make sure eye contact is made first. He was wrong to assume the dealer saw what he was doing.

Only do it if it's actually out of reach, the earlier the better, and always do it in a way that the dealer can still tell what belongs to who. If I can reach it, leave it alone. Especially the button.

The worst for me is players who wait until I reach for a bet, then snatch it from under my hand and lob it straight into the pot. Not only does it waste time because I have to track down the chips that are rolling everywhere but because I don't know how much you actually threw.

Second is players who gather several bets together into a big pile and push it forward, or worse start grabbing change out of someone else's bet. My job is to make sure the proper number of chips from each person makes it into the pot. I now have no idea who put what in. I have to stop, count it all, and do a bunch of extra math to at least figure out if the total is right.