In a tourney, a player takes a bad beat and is left with fewer than 5 blinds. Next hand, he is set to be in the big blind but he thinks he is under the gun and declares that he is all-in before the cards are dealt. So, according to rule #53 of the TDA, a player betting out of turn must pull back his bet, but the all-in is binding if the action does not change. But does that rule apply here since his out of turn bet occurred before the cards were dealt? In the case I observed, the bet was pulled back and action was then put on the player under the gun. It folded around until a player in late position RAISED with pocket aces. After the hand, I mentioned that if the player with pocket aces had just limped such as to not change the action, then the big blind would have had the all-in he declared to be binding. But another player said rule #53 (betting out of turn) did not apply since the action was declared before the cards were dealt, thus nullifying the action immediately. Thoughts?

It depends when they declared all in. If they did it before the start of the hand (first riffle or pushing the button on the shuffler) then it's not binding. If the dealer has started dealing the cards it's binding. There is a murky area in between where they may be allowed to take it back.

That part might also depend on house rules if no auto shufflers are used.

I imagine this is how it should be ruled, but it’s such an obscure situation I could see it go either way depending on the floor/room.

I'm not a tournament guy, but if the same thing happened in a cash game, I would think it would be considered a "gross misunderstanding of the action" and be cancelled, so he would have all options open when it got to him. Making it binding can hurt other players, which I don't like.

Yeah this is one of those situations that is answered by common sense. The "rules is rules" originalists will have a fit, which is how you know it's the correct handling.

It doesn't even have to be tied to an existing rule such as "gross misunderstanding", it's more "don't be daft". It is not the goal to appease those who would hold BB to the raise.

I asked the TD about this (in a room that uses TDA rules) and he said that if the dealer corrected the action before anyone acted (which I believe the OP said the dealer did), then the allin would not be binding.

However, had the dealer not made it clear that the person acted out of turn, then it could easily have affected the action (causing people to fold that might otherwise have played), then the action would likely have been ruled as binding.

Either way, tricky spot.

I'd say it is a timing issue with the deal. Certainly if it's announced before any cards are dealt, then the Dealer should step in and make sure they know they are in the BB and to wait their turn.

Had BB looked at their first card and declared 'all-in', then I probably would've held them to it had the AA raise not occurred.

I'm not really seeing a difference between cash and tournament for this exact spot .. GL