Playing a tournament I rivered the nuts when an Ace hit. I was pretty sure someone had an Ace and would overcall a big bet regardless of their kicker -that's pretty common in the low buy-in tournies I play.

I wanted to throw a thousand dollar chip in and say "Crap! I thought it was a $500 chip" to induce a call but I thought that would be a douchebag move so I didn't.

Can anyone defend this? Can anyone do anything about it?

I once threw in an extra $5000 chip completely by accident when the chips stuck together but it certainly wasn't intentional. I lost that hand. :-(

Yes, purposely throwing in an oversize chip and acting like it was a mistake is an age-old angle and a d-bag move.

Don't do it.

I didn't!

sounds okay to me, go for it

Or not. Don't be a dick.

Yeah, it's an angle. People are dumb enough to call without your little acting job, and if anything it will hurt your chances of getting called.

haha - depends, how good a hollywooder are you?

As the first poster said it's a D-Bag move , But I still see it done sometimes unfortunately

just between us OP, its OK and not an angle AT ALL...what would make you think it was?

pro tip: grab your biggest single chip, hold it between your index and middle finger...hollywood and tank unnecessarily for a while...bring your hands toward your chin/mouth as if you are in deep thought...start bringing you hand down, open palmed with big chip in between your index and middle finger...let go of chip into pot...hollywood like denzel washington telling people you were meaning to check...rake in pot when stupid tourist donk fish overcalls like an idiot...ez game...your welcome! this isnt an angle at all either btw

This is so big of a douchebag move that the following from a televised tournament provoked a tournament official to actually break the rules to get at the douchebag.

DB on the river has virtual nuts. He throws out $2K and then says "Oh no, I mean $1K, I miss up the chip, my English not good." (not really what he said but you get the basic idea. "Call the floor. Can I call the floor? This is mistake, I want to take it back."

The floor comes over and says to DB "No, it can't be taken back as you are well aware." Then he says to hero "Just FYI sir, this player did the same thing earlier in the tournament and then showed the nuts."

!!

The idiot Hero calls anyway and is shown the virtual nuts. DB thought it was just fine and scoops the pot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkxcBy6js7s#t=123

Thanks, didn't know how to search for that.

Anyway, point being, you know it's pretty dirty if the TD basically makes an equally unethical move against the villain. Do 2 wrongs make a right?

Well, to OP, don't even think about it

This is an obv angle shoot lol....You cant do something like that and remain friends with people , but then again u dont play to make friends so maybe go for it next time!

Is it not a game of deceit and lying anyways lol?

Yes, but only within the rules and spirit of the game....

I wondered about that the first time I saw this clip. Does anyone think it was wrong for the TD to inform the table of the player's prior history of making the same angleshooting move?

Technically its a violation of OPTAH. Morally, I'm ok with it though.

Similar, and there's probably a discussion of this stuff on the site somewhere, is when somebody checks out of turn, on purpose. The idea is to look weak and prompt a bet out of early position. I've seen this many times, especially heads up. When the bet is made, the angler raises. At 2/5NL it's a monster nearly every time.

Hell no. If someone's shooting a clear angle, I've got no sympathy for them complaining about the letter of the law.

Nope, I'm actually happy the floor did that.

If it's not unethical to lie about the strength of your hand (prior to showdown), why is it unethical to lie about how much you intended to bet?

The youtube clip is a different situation IMO.

I have seen people throw in a higher denomination chip 'by accident' about 5 times in my life. Only once was it a genuine mistake from a true newb.

Best time was when a player tried to do it and the dealer said
"you accidentally threw in a black ($100), did you mean to or was it just a call? if it was just a call you can take it back "

The action prior: 3 players to the flop, UTG leads small on a 5,6,7 two hearts board for $25, one call, and the button (who we find out had flopped a set of 5's) put 4 $5 chips and 1 $100 chip to 'call' a $25 flop bet)

Since the player pretended to look shocked at his bet the dealer "let" him take it back.


In conclusion: Most good players are wise to this and it's a douchy move. Nothing technically wrong with it though.

As a dealer, I don't like it because it makes me an unwitting accessory to your shenanigans, when I make you keep your bet.

Some will see this an an angle, others won't. People have different definitions of angle. Some feel that anything which obfuscates action is shady and should be avoided. I don't really care, just don't force me to be a part of it.

It's also a bush-league move, usually very transparent to all but total newbs. And those new players might feel tricked outside the scope of the game. Whether they're justified doesn't really matter, as it's their perception that's important. When you're pulling the long con, never let the mark know he's been hit. Just seems like bad business to me.

I believe that the TD told the player that in the interest of full disclosure this same player had done something like this earlier in the tournament.

I used to see it happen a couple times a month. The Sahara daily tournament used non-standard colors. It'd catch some poor far-sighted tourist pretty regularly. With blinds at 25/50, someone in EP would raise to $125 with 5 greens, then some sweet old lady would grab two black chips and place 'em out there, dealer would announce "2000" and she'd panic.

Other tourneys sometimes have similar problems. The folks picking chips colors aren't always real good at making choices, and the difference between black T100 and deep purple T500 is lost on many people.

I also see it happen in cash games a few times a year. Chips stick together or someone has a dirty stack. But it's usually the difference between limping for $3 and raising to $7. No major harm and everybody LOLs.

it's against the whole ethos of low buy in tournaments not to do it, so long as it's accompanied by bad acting and shots of tequila for the table (including the dealer please).

Because then where the **** do you draw the line? why would it be considered unethical to lie about your intended action a la Freitez (sp?).

That's the issue with crap like this. Is you allow this/think it's not an angle, what's next?

Btw I always lol at the dude who ends up calling with KQ in the that video. The TD tells him it's an angle he does with the nuts, and even later in an interview says he heard about Freitez before the tournament and knew he does that, yet still pays him off with just top pair. Good job, good effort.