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All-in Ruling for Hidden Chips All-in Ruling for Hidden Chips

11-26-2008 , 10:58 AM
There are some No Limit Holdem tournament rulings that are unclear for me and I would appreciate clarification. They involve all-in situations where a player has either misstated his chip stack total or finds chips hidden somewhere behind after the fact. Here is the appropriate section of Robert's Rules:

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20. A player who declares all in and loses the pot, then discovers that one or more chips were hidden, is not entitled to benefit from this. That player is eliminated from the tournament if the opponent had sufficient chips to cover the hidden ones (A rebuy is okay if allowable by the rules of that event). If another deal has not yet started, the director may rule the chips belong to the opponent who won that pot, if that obviously would have happened with the chips out in plain view. If the next deal has started, the discovered chips are removed from the tournament.
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Scenario 1 - This discovery happens BEFORE the flop and BEFORE the players exposes their cards.

I would rule that if the amount called is 80% or more when including the missing chips, then the caller must make up the difference. This is from Robert's Rules for a "gross misunderstanding" of the amount of a bet the player is facing. If the hidden amount is larger, then I would rule to give the caller a chance to reconsider his call.

Scenario 2 - This discovery happens AFTER the flop and/or AFTER the players exposes their cards.

In this instance, I don't think it is correct to give the calling player a chance to reconsider so we now have to decide what to do with the extra chips. Robert's Rules seem to imply that the caller would get the remaining chips if he wins the pot and he has the all-in player covered.

Here are my questions:

a. What happens if the caller loses the pot? (My assumption is that the caller is only obligated for his called amount. Unfortunately, this gives him a freeroll.)

b. What happens if the caller doesn't have the player covered and wins? (My assumption is that the all-in player must cover the caller’s stack and then can play with his remaining chips.)

c. What happens if the missing amount is large compared to the bet? (This one is difficult and fortunately not common.)

Thank you advance,
All-in Ruling for Hidden Chips Quote
11-26-2008 , 12:42 PM
if a verbal all-in was declared, I believe that the missing chips should be part of the pot and matched by the caller. He called all in assuming all of his opponents chips were on the line. I don't think a small difference in amount should affect this. hugely different scenario if it's a very high denomination single chip that was found ( Ie a 25k chip or something when you thought you were only sitting on 10k)
All-in Ruling for Hidden Chips Quote

      
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