Wait till they adjust. You are going to see a much tougher field in the live casinos. If they were able to beat the online game, they will be able to beat the live game as well. It's still the same game, just slower. Live actually requires more concentration because it is a much slower game.

I don't want this to come across wrong, but it seems like the best players I play with live are young guys. I don't know if they are "internet players" or not, but they definitely know the fundamentals of poker and more often than not I find out that stereotype is that they have played and learned online. The people w/ the worst fundamentals and worst play are typically the older crowd. Not to say there isn't any bad young players because their are, but the % of older gentleman that are bad a poker is greater than those that are younger. I suspect because many of the younger players have been able to hone their game online, where many (not all) older players have a negative image of playing on a computer.

The transition from live play to online play was very difficult for me. Just because you can be so terrible live and still win. It's a 50x easier transition online to live. If anything, the limp happy passive regulars seem to be the ones lately on the short end of the stick. Can't tell you how many times I've rivered or turned a huge hand after I've barreled just to be told I'm a dumb internet player. "Regs" will try to tell you how stupid you are because you raise pots alot that you don't win, they just fail to see the bigger picture. Most of the bad limping regs play so passively because it reduces variance and they don't really know how to handle a 10K-20K hand downswing by being more aggressive. When the passive reg plays more aggressively they notice they lose some pots that they invested quite a bit of money w/ nothing to show for it, it's alot easier for them to wrap their head around the fact it cost $5 to call and enter the pot or only had to call $20 in a pot that was 6-way and at least $130. There is obviously however one advantage a live player has, they can psychologically take some longer losing streaks better than an online guy (timewise). Other than that, poker is poker. It really is. People make this debate out to be much more than it is.

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Luckily, many online pros are either too young to play in a casino (assuming 21+), or are in college and lack the time needed to play live on a regular basis. It will probably take a few years before they adjust in great numbers.

You've bought 1000s of lottery tickets against your will. What did the dealers do to "deserve" a piece of it? You should tip more than $1 when you win the BBJ, because the floorman has to spend a considerable amount of time filling out paperwork on your behalf. Also, the dealer is going to get fewer hands out on the down because of your good fortune. Its hard to see the logic behind tipping more than like $5 to the dealer and $20 to the floor. The players are putting in the money, not the dealers. Why not take the 10k and walk around to every table not part of the BBJ and hand everyone $300? Give them a refund for all the money they've dropped down the BBJ. If i ever win a BBJ, I wonder if I'll be able to tip more than $20.

Well let's hope you never win it then.

Somehow you don't come across as a nice person. I hope he wins and when he does neither you nor me will have any right to pass judgements on how he tips. He paid the rake, he gave that casino his business over some other place and BBJ was there to entice him to do just that in the first place.

This is actually a good point. Wouldn't most of us rather the BBJ not exist at all? Or do we think it serves a good purpose bringing fish to the casino? In any event, the BBJ is 0 EV at best, if you don't tip; any amount the winner tips makes it -EV.

Does anybody else see the irony that I am being called "not a nice person" because I think people should tip well?

The BBJ definitely brings fish to the table. It's worth the extra dollar in rake.

And on tipping: I just chopped a casino freeroll when we got to the final table for $9,000 each. I tipped the dealers $100. I thought that was plenty.

And in a cash game, I rarely tip unless the hand has action on the flop or after. I'm not going to tip if I raise pre-flop and everyone folds; or, if I get a couple callers, C-bet, and everyone folds.

Call me cheap, I don't mind.

Take Gabe's advice: "You should play tournaments."

Nothing says you have to sit down at a cash game, even if that's your long term preference. Find a low buy-in and play it to learn (and win if you can). In fact, playing several of these can be an inexpensive way to make mental notes on players you'll see at the cash games later on. But there's so much new and different information to take in during live play, having a loss limit from the buy-in takes some of the pressure off while you get used to things.

One dealer even met my "Hi I'm new" introduction before a game with a rundown on what was and was not allowed. Dealers can be your best allies in getting comfortable; it's as much in their interest as yours to keep play as smooth as possible.

I do have a question though: how does tipping dealers work for tournaments?

Generally it's just those who cash that tip. I actually had a situation one time (at Canterbury Park in MN) where I mincashed (for IIRC not all that much more than the buyin), gave the dealer a small tip, the dealer openly groused about how stingy I was being, and I complained to the floor who was apologetic and comped me a meal.

There have been whole other threads on BBJ's; opinions vary wildly.
Generally, my perception is that more of the higher-stakes and more professional players dislike them, and that most of the lower-stakes and less professional players love them.
I would just point out that they are even more -EV for the players as a whole than they look, because even if they return 95-100% of the extra rake in payouts, most of the payouts are taxed, which means that about 25% of the gross rake is going from the players to the IRS.
As far as bringing new players in, I think this works to some extent in AC and Las Vegas, where the players have lots of choices and can flock to the casino with the biggest jackpot. But at casinos which more or less stand alone in their geographic area, I think this effect is minimal. Personally, I would prefer not to have them (but I'd be happy to hit one!).

My B&M used to give us $2/hr, when they implemented the bad beat, it dropped to $.50/hr. I would much rather have the $2/hr. Considering, I have never been there when it has popped, so I have never received a share and I have been a regular for many years now!!! I am sure I have generated my fair share of rake though!!!

Oooh, yeah, you're right. Even more reason not to tip huge if you win. How long, I wonder, does the average player have to play before getting some of their BBJ money back?

[QUOTE=bigcrit;26141593]Very good point on the Oreos. I just had coffee come out of my nose :-).

Play the game, don't be afraid of violence, unless your at the Taj. Little old men are dangerous too. Anyone have a shank?[/QUOTE


Funny you said that, I clearly remember a few years ago, was playing late one night at the taj, and a fist fight broke out at my table over all things....Spliting a late night bill of chinese food? So yeah, I believe it.

They deserve? How much of the BBJ rake did they pay?

This depends on the specific qualifying hands and rules for BBJ.
But FWIW, with Foxwoods' BBJ rules (minimum = quad 8's beaten by a better hand, quads must have pocket pair, both players must use both hole cards to make best hand), my crude estimate is that a BBJ will be dealt on average once every 300,000 10-handed deals.
(This is a guess, based on WizardofOdds' computer-generated simulation that with these rules, a BBJ should occur about once every 200,000 10-handed deals, if every hand sees the flop and is played to the river, ie, no one ever folds any hand. Obviously, some pocket pairs >7's and some suited connectors and gappers never get to see the river, also not all tables are full 10-handed every deal, so I guess that the true number is more like once/ 300,000 deals. This number seems to correlate pretty closely with the average frequency with which FW's Holdem BBJ has hit since it was started. But I would not argue with anyone who wanted to guess that the "true" number is 10-20% higher or lower than this.)
At this rate, a player playing 30 hours per week should average being at a BBJ table once in (very) roughly every 7 years or so. By this time, he would have contributed about $20,000 in extra rake (I think this runs about $2/hour per player), and he's 80% likely (at a full 10-handed table) to be getting only a table share, vs. the 50% or 25% big shares, of whatever the jackpot is when it happens to hit. (And then they take out the taxes.)
Not really a financially pretty picture, IMO....

I want to add from my limited experience, do not call the clock on someone when u aren't in the hand even if u think they are just wasting time; I think it hurts your image def if u are playing tight etc

At best u tilt them, at worse the person leaves or starts to spiting u

If you see an older, perhaps Italian/maybe Russian guy, lot of gold, snappy dresser, at your table and he is eating Oreos, just find another table...lol

[PHP][/PHP]

The thing I've found I hate most about live poker is the stupid comments people make after losing hands like "nice catch" etc. Or the guy sitting next to you talking to you and criticizing everyone else's play. I just find most people really annoying.

Get headphones. I used to play on occasion at my local B&M, enough that they all knew me and considered me a reg. Now, obv., it is exclusively and I use headphones so I don't have to listen to anyone or hear any of this banter you speak of. It is really annoying when people freak out because I shove their flop bet of TPTK with a 15 out draw and get there. Later those same idiots will just call a weak draw against the odds and pout about how their draws don't get home or even worse, they suck out hard with bottom pair because, they "put you on AK" lol.

I have to say, I play a ton better using the headphones. My buddy always told me I play alot better when not letting the conversation get to me and I concentrated on the game itself. Results have shown. My 2 worst sessions since black friday have been without my headphones.

If you instead of ignoring these people, listen to them you will quickly figure out everything about their strategy and approach to the game.

One time I raised Pre-flop 2-3 times in an orbit with AK each time. I lost every hand (limit poker). The guy sitting next to me says "That's why I never raise AK or pocket Jacks or Tens or..... " and I proceeded to learn exactly what his range was when he DID raise and adjust.

I much prefer the 'Ohhh, I got really lucky on the river there, how would you have played that hand' as a response to 'Nice catch'.

It's so easy to solicit information from people especially if you make them feel like you honestly value their advice.

They will tell you how to beat them.

This is the attitude of a winning, live, cash-game player. The amount of information leaking from every player at the table is truly astounding. Live play is a game of people watching. Sometimes, they even tell you outright just how to play against them.

As I pointed out at the beginning of this thread, being polite is, as a general rule, the best policy at the table. The benefits are innumerable.

If you do wear headphones, please make sure you pay close attention to the game visually and take them off or at least remove one side when you're in a hand post-flop. It is really annoying and time-wasting for the entire table when someone wearing headphones is completely oblivious to the dealer's and other players' verbal actions or to the normal flow of the game.
I have often wondered what the floor decision would be if someone induced a headphone-clad allin player to show his cards by silently mouthing the word "Call" at them....