Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Abandoned Hand? Abandoned Hand?

04-11-2015 , 11:44 PM
This happened several weeks ago, some details have become fuzzy, but I just recently become aware that there may be an issue.

Small weekly tournament, 80 some entries, down to 2 tables of 8 each.

4 players All in pre-flop. Dealer takes forever to create main pot, very small side pot for the other 3 players, including Villain, and a fairly large side pot for the last 2 players.

Dealer has us turn em up, AQo, 10-10, Villain shows 88, and I turn up AA. Villain and his buddy start laughing and whining about his chances. I don't remember his exact words, but Villain indicated he was leaving, stood up (seat 7, at the end of the table), picked up his I-thingy, pushed his chair halfway back in, and started walking.

Meanwhile, the dealer has been doing his thing and the flop has an 8. Buddy calls out ”Villain, come back. You made a set!” I look and Villain is past the end of the next table which runs parallel to ours. By the time Villain is back in his seat, the board has paired giving him a boat. River is a brick.

Did Villain abandon his hand, if so, when? Should dealer have mucked his hand or does that require the floor. At what point do we have accepted action and its to late to do anything.

What rules apply? Proper time and procedure to have the rules applied?

Thanks
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-12-2015 , 12:34 AM
You can't abandon a hand in a tournament. If his hand wins, and he's not there, push chips to his seat, and blind it off. Chips are his, seat his, and if he cashes, prizes are his.
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-12-2015 , 12:37 AM
I haven't heard of this rule that a player can "abandon" their hand.

His cards were tabled and then the board was run out which just so happened to conclude with him winning by hitting a full house.

Now he may have thought looking at the pre-folp odds that the 88s were such a low chance of beating AAs that he may as well head towards the door but that does not by any means result in him forfeiting his hand.
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-12-2015 , 06:39 AM
If he wants to give up because he's only 20% to win the hand he should probably find a new hobby. I suspect he was doing it for show and didn't actually mean he was leaving, same as how people will stand and put on jacket.
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-12-2015 , 06:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwolf
If he wants to give up because he's only 20% to win the hand he should probably find a new hobby. I suspect he was doing it for show and didn't actually mean he was leaving, same as how people will stand and put on jacket.
It is a lot more common than you think. Don't get too caught up with how it seems on tv.
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-12-2015 , 06:59 AM
Player didn't muck his cards so he's still in the hand. Where he physically is can't be relevant, as he already made his bet and the cards were face up.

Last edited by plaaynde; 04-12-2015 at 07:12 AM.
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-12-2015 , 07:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5
It is a lot more common than you think. Don't get too caught up with how it seems on tv.
No it's really not common at all. In over a thousand tournaments I can't recall even one person leaving because he "thought his chances were too low". It's not the same as getting up to leave because you thought you lost but didn't.
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-12-2015 , 07:09 AM
Guy may have misjudged his chances when seeing not just aces, but another higher pair as well. And he knew his buddy was still watching. Time to put in the show.
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-12-2015 , 07:30 AM
If there is still action left, I think they can kill your hand if you get out of your seat (I've seen it happen once or twice preflop in cash games).

If the action is over, I don't think you can abandon your hand.
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-12-2015 , 07:47 AM
As soon as he's all in and the cards are tabled, it is too late to kill his hand. Sorry you lost.
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-12-2015 , 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneCrazyDuck
You can't abandon a hand in a tournament. If his hand wins, and he's not there, push chips to his seat, and blind it off. Chips are his, seat his, and if he cashes, prizes are his.
this.

thou walking away is not adviced..
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-12-2015 , 08:57 AM
Sucks that your AA lost. But they lost fair and square. I hope in all tourneys, that hand is still live, gets paid and if the guy leaves, the stack gets blinded down until gone (or he reappears).

Same would apply if player was all-in at a cash game.

It's poker, not gotcha.
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-12-2015 , 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam1chips
If there is still action left, I think they can kill your hand if you get out of your seat (I've seen it happen once or twice preflop in cash games).

If the action is over, I don't think you can abandon your hand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5
I haven't heard of this rule that a player can "abandon" their hand.

His cards were tabled and then the board was run out which just so happened to conclude with him winning by hitting a full house.
TDA Rule #30:
Quote:
At the Table with Action Pending

A player with a live hand must remain at the table if any further betting action remains in the hand. Leaving the table is incompatible with a player’s duty to protect his hand and follow the action, and is subject to penalty.
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-12-2015 , 06:52 PM
This is the real issue here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwing
Buddy calls out ”Villain, come back. You made a set!”
Get the floor to kill his hand for the "one player to a hand" violation.
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-12-2015 , 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steamraise
This is the real issue here.

Get the floor to kill his hand for the "one player to a hand" violation.
Complete wrong application of the rule so no that is not the issue here. There is no issue. Optah violation would be if his buddy told him to call or fold, not that he wins the hand (once hand is tabled)
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-13-2015 , 04:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwolf
No it's really not common at all. In over a thousand tournaments I can't recall even one person leaving because he "thought his chances were too low". It's not the same as getting up to leave because you thought you lost but didn't.
You must not play low buyin casual tournaments much then. I see it at least a few times a year or so. Obviously very player pool dependent.
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-13-2015 , 06:40 AM
Good posts ... Once a hand is tabled face up it lives on whether someone is there to stack them or not!!

I have told many that Day 1 chip leaders at WSOP ME should just take Day 2 off since their odds of 'just cashing' go way up by not showing up and letting their stacks get blinded off!! Of course this is somewhat crazy, but it's very difficult to sit on hands the day after you were hit by the deck. GL
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-13-2015 , 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigsaw
TDA Rule #30:
Doesn't that rule become obsolete when the hand is tabled?

It is really just for ensuring that the player is at the table so he can act while the action or betting is still live.
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-13-2015 , 08:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwolf
Complete wrong application of the rule so no that is not the issue here.
Sorry did you take me seriously? I didn't take the OP seriously.

Abandoned hand? Come on, it's a tournament, the hand was tabled.
Push the pot to the seat. The hand is never getting killed.
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-13-2015 , 10:00 AM
SMH
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-13-2015 , 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5
Doesn't that rule become obsolete when the hand is tabled?

It is really just for ensuring that the player is at the table so he can act while the action or betting is still live.
He was simply quoting the rule in which you asked for about abandoning a hand. You are correct that it doesn't matter once the hand is tabled with no more action pending.
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-13-2015 , 12:38 PM
Never mind, was already addressed.
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-14-2015 , 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwing
...
What rules apply? Proper time and procedure to have the rules applied?
Thanks
Standard TDA rules state when only all-in players are left all hands must be turned over and no hands can be mucked until the pot has been awarded. This is to avoid chip dumping.

Similarly, no hand can be abandoned.

If a player leaves a tournament, typically his stack is blinded off because it is unclear if the player will return or not. I have been at a Day 2 of a tournament when a player showed up about 2 hours after play had started. Recently we were discussing what the TD would do if a player stated that he wasn't coming back - because it is an unfair advantage to particular players in the tournament (those not at the table, those at the table but not sitting to his right, etc.). We asked the Floor and he said it would depend on the circumstances. Personally I would leave the stack but rotate it through all remaining tables but that would be very work intensive.

There is no TDA rule about taking it like a man.
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-17-2015 , 06:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20
Good posts ... Once a hand is tabled face up it lives on whether someone is there to stack them or not!!

I have told many that Day 1 chip leaders at WSOP ME should just take Day 2 off since their odds of 'just cashing' go way up by not showing up and letting their stacks get blinded off!! Of course this is somewhat crazy, but it's very difficult to sit on hands the day after you were hit by the deck. GL
Who enters the ME to 'just cash'?
Abandoned Hand? Quote
04-17-2015 , 07:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Rick
If a player leaves a tournament, typically his stack is blinded off because it is unclear if the player will return or not. I have been at a Day 2 of a tournament when a player showed up about 2 hours after play had started.
At $1000 WSOP events where the bubble bursts at the end of day 1, there are several abandoned stacks at the beginning of day 2. Those are usually less than 2BB though from players who don't think that stack size was worth getting back to the Rio.
Abandoned Hand? Quote

      
m