Dealers should IMMEDIATELY bury folded hands into the muck. If the dealer does what they are supposed to do none of this happens. Not what you would expect from a professional dealer.

Unless the hand was properly tabled the interference from the other player was unacceptable. He should be handed a rack and invited back after 24 hours.

Floor makes the correct call based on existing rules but it sucks.

Dealer fault the dealer should kill dead hands before pushing the pot.

The a-hole who read the untabled cards should be shown the door.

Well you might argue... but given your point is that someone should win a pot without the best cards, your arguement doesn't hold much water.

And there are floormen precisely because you aren't god.

Doucebag could be shown the door, and in fact I might do just that. But no way does the worst hand win on a technicality when I'm the floor.

Note that the guy with the straight also has a slight odor of douche around him for mucking his hand into the board.

I agree, dealer should finish mucking hands BEFORE pushing the pot.

I agree, it does not override the (correct) decision that the floor made in this instance. However, it does make the situation suck, and it does make the OP feel like he was screwed out of a $900 pot.

What's wrong with having a little sympathy for him? (I'm not directly this question at you, Al; just in general).

The correct ruling was made, but ideally, if you can discombobulate your opponent by calling his "bluff," and the result is that he throws away a winning hand, who wouldn't want to win? In the OP, it was close, but then someone opened their mouth when they should not have, and caused the OP to lose. So... correct rulings all around; still sucks; and if at all possible, perhaps the dealer should try to muck discarded hands a little more quickly (although there really isn't enough itt to determine if he was criminally slow, or if the take-back happened lightning fast), the loud mouth should be given a warning, and maybe the winner of the hand should be given a fake warning ("you get it this time, but next time your throw your cards away, I'm not going to be able to let you pull them out again").

I've seen so many situations like this that I just don't have sympathy anymore for someone who posts complaining how they got screwed out of winning a pot with the worst hand.

Not that I wish anything bad on the OP, or anyone else who has something like this happen to them. I rarely even pay that much attention to who's doing the posting, only to what they say. Thus there's nothing personal if I don't feel sympathetic for someone's situation.

Lots of people have situations like this happen to them. Sometimes I have to deal with it live, either as a player, dealer or floor, and sometimes I have to hear about it later as a poster on 2+2. It just doesn't phase me anymore. Too bad, so sad. Call the waaaambulance. Next hand please.

al

Yeah, exactly. I know the player feels screwed over, but the best hand won at showdown, so it's hard to feel too bad about it. I think a lot of these posts are more trying to explain this so that people can feel less sore about it in the future.

Because really, you have two choices:

1) Lose the pot and be angry about it.
2) Lose the pot and shrug it off.

Neither of these gets you the pot, but one of them hurts your chances at winning future pots in that session.

Once again here we go!
Anytime you push your hand twoards the muck with out tabling them it "SHOULD BE" a mucked hand, and I believe you sayed he did not table them, but then again we could not be giving all the TRUE info.

I'm not a great PLO player but apparent the donk must just be a total maniac if two pair is ahead of his bet-bet-bet range, right? ("raising or calling every hand" doesn't imply to me that he's leading the betting every time with one pair, which is essentially air.) Either that, or OP is pretty loose in calling 3 rounds without a pretty strong read, right?

Or am I just too inflexible of thinking of PLO as a grind the nuts or rep the nuts game?

Depends what type of game your in. When your HU up against a loose Agr player top two will be good majority of the time.

A player voluntarily mucking his cards while knowing that someone else has a live hand is hardly a technicality.

Kill losing hand before pushing the pot.

The player doesn't have the best cards. Not until the floorman makes the decision IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE GAME to retrieve them or not. In the best interests of the game, I would not retrieve them. That the dealer didn't push them in with the other cards is a technicality.

I'm reminded of an incident a while back.

I was dealing 30/60. Heads up, little action. At the river, the board showed JA88J. One player said, "Is my King good?" The other player threw his hand forward. I was in the process of grabbing the cards when the player realized his mistake. We both froze for a beat.

He chuckled, "Nah, I conceded, it was my mistake." And the floor likely would have ruled the hand live had he called for it.

I'm not really sure my point, but I think, despite this being the opposite situation as the OP, it says something about how the rules are there as a guide, not as a law. Every situation is unique, and things could go either way. Relaaaaaaax.

I think everyone agrees that the guy with the best hand is a muppet for not properly tabling his hand.

If you get called, table your hand. I agree with you here, soah, and think that these situations are typically the result of multiple people being muppets.

That rule applies to retrieving them from the muck. They aren't in the muck, so they can just be picked up. There is an argument to be made that in the interest of fairness the hand is dead. To make that argument you have to say that the player had sufficient time to realize his mistake on his own (is possible since the dealer started to push the pot, but it is really hard to convey time on the internet). If one says he had plenty of time to realize his error and the ONLY reason he picked up his cards is because someone pointed out that he had a straight.

This happens all the time.

I see it as a problem, because clearly people need to keep their mouths shut.
I say solution is to a kill the hand if another player at the table identified the players hand.

Obviously this wouldn't apply unless the hand had already been mucked, because of angles(people could peek at your cards and identify your hand to kill it).

River puts straight on board
Villain mucks all FOUR of his cards.

In Omaha, he can't play the straight on the board. He has to use two of his cards.

I'm confused. And I'm fairly sure it is because of the OP. Whatever.

I took OP to mean that the river made a straight possible. Since having five cards making a straight on board is irrelevant in Omaha for the reasons you cite, I doubt that's what was meant.

Regardless of whether five cards in sequence were on the board, the point is the guy didn't realize he had a straight, and the rest of the post makes perfect sense in that light.

I think you got screwed here, but if the donk has your money it probably makes more sense to rebuy and try to get it back.. however you were obviously on tilt from this so it might've been good to walk away.

Cards speak... sure... if they weren't mucked by the player. Once you muck a hand you do not have the power to make them live again.

This is exactly my point.

You're not winning the pot. You just aren't. Maybe sometimes somewhere you might be able to argue for it, but not the vast majority of the time.

So you can either work to change your mindset and accept "that's poker" and play on with a clear head.... or you can get frustrated at the injustice of it all and tilt away more money.

Either way, you're not getting this pot.

Manager is wrong and to be frank he ****ed that one up.
The dealer pushing the pot to you is correct.
How did the guy to the left of the Donk see his cards? Did he initially turn his hand over? What ever happened to holding people accountable for what they say? ("You got it" or "All In", etc)
My guess is the donk is a regular and basically lucked out that day.
It's stories like this one and the recent Bellagio and PH scandals that make poker so unattractive. LV is supposed to be the place where one should feel confidently about the proper rules being enforced.
I'm sorry man

You hear talk about, "The best interest of the game," but do floors managers really act in the best interest of the game the majority of the time? After reading this thread it's clear that the best hand should win the pot at showdown, but not in a situation like this!

That is disgusting

wat.

why?