Hi everyone!

I'm been playing poker for about 3 years with both short and long breaks and i decided to try live poker this summer. You should know i'm not really sociable, i don't have friends and barely talk at the table. One evening i was playing a tournament and i had a hand where i doubled up. While i was collecting the chips i just suddenly realized i made the whole table silent, the small talk/laughter just stopped and i assume that's because of me, like my depressed mood was contagious. Besides poker, i generally think too much about how others see me/what they think about me. Can you help me be just a bit more relaxed at the table? I know i just started and i need some time and experience before i get used to live poker, but maybe you guys have some same experiences. I figured out that basically i need to relearn poker, because while i'm in a hand i just tend to ignore key things (like position/how the other guy has been playing etc.) but i guess that will come with experience.

Another important thing is that i'm just so quiet. Even if someone talks to me, sometimes i just can't respond in time as if i'm lost in game. A man said i look like as if i was away somewhere else. But i'm just really focusing on the game and i want to take it seriously because a lot is at stake. Especially if i'm in a hand i don't talk at all (don't respond wether if i'm gonna show/how much i'm playing), and ppl at the table occasionally make jokes /comments about me and i feel bad/awkward.

Although you may think i should just stick with online poker, i enjoy playing live. I'm starting to spot some tells and most of the players are very fishy. Although the rake is a bit high (10% in cash and 20% in mtts) i think it's worth it. At the first time, i was so overwhelmed by the stimulations of seeing a bunch of people playing poker, the sound of chips and how "live and pulsating" the whole poker room was that i just sat in my seat frozen, but i believe that takes only time getting used to it because i used to never go out and see people.

Sorry i wrote such a long thread, thank you for reading it and may the A of spades be with you!

Forget everything and listen to the following on how to control weird thoughts and inhibitions in your mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxId3acyzbc

many people care too much how/what others think about them or how others see them (including myself). the thing is, that we have to live OUR life and its not that important what others say or think about us. we should try not to let the them (their words,...) come to close into our head. we have to build up an imaginative "wall", where everything we dont wanna hear smashes. the thing is, that we have only one life and we should live it like we want to. You and YOUR thaughts are the most important ones in YOUR life. If we take everything other ones say or could think about us to serious, we get sick and crazy, simply because we have to deal with so many people every day.

i am very sorry to hear, that you have no friends. you have to change this, because life is much better with friends. make it step by step. i would start meeting people of my family (uncle, cousins,...) more frequently and let them introduce you to their friends. you could also try to connect to skype poker learning groups and talk to other players without having to show your self. this might help too.

if you wanna play live poker without speaking, i would suggest to wear earphones and maybe sunglasses. its kind of normal, that people who listen to music, do not speak too much .

Usually, it is yourself that makes them feel that way towards you, you're exuberating a very bad vibe and they're picking that up. With poker players this is even worst since observing people and picking up vibes is what they do for a living lol...

I don't know how to deal with this since I have a similiar issue. I've social anxiety and depression and I know that my moods do get contagious.

Once I played a live cash game and it felt really awkward. I just wasn't prepared for it. It felt like I was being mocked by some for being too shy/& odd. Also, wasn't playing serious I was watching tv half the time. (Not sure why there was a tv in a poker room casino.) Never played live again ever since!

Whenever I get too close to people but especially young folk (girls mostly) it's like I stop breathing and my mind races. Online on the other hand, I mostly don't give a shat!

Hey guys!

Thanks a lot for your replies!

I've watched your video Mark and it's been useful, although doing exercises is still a bit of a struggle for me, i used be more active a few months ago.

Luckyschurl: my mindset is somehow unset. Like, sometimes i dont want to think that much at the table because i put others before myself and dont want them to be bored, but sometimes i can also be really selfish. But poker is where i feel i'm not afraid of people, and besides being equal, i believe a have an edge on those folks and it just feels amazing to put them to the test (unfortunately i had an argue with a few players the last time i played and i couldnt help losing my temper, i hope that's was a single occasion). I'm pretty sure im infamous amongst the other players for my playstyle and general behaviour, but actually im looking for some methods be more likeable (like listening to my favorite music on my way to the poker room shakes me up a bit) by the other players.

MistakesWereMade: don't you want to give live poker another shot? i was super excited the first time, and then it started to be normal to play with actual cards/people etc., but i think it's also a good opportunity to be among other people with the same interest. I'm been a nerd growing up, sad, but i rarely leave my room unless i have something to do. But lately i've been getting professional help who encourages me to go outside more often and meet new people. So for me, even if i don't talk to/interact with other people, i just "get used to" be among people, even if it sounds weird for a normal person.

I've thought about transitioning to live since reading players will be so much easier.

I'm not really enthusiastic though, the local casinos here don't really support poker tournaments. Mostly cash games is what you'll find or tournaments that range from $2k-$10k.

Then there is the issue of slow progression. I don't know if I can get use to it after playing online for so long...

You are probably leveling yourself lol. There's no spotlight on you trust me.

You may not expect this response but I believe my response will be the best in this thread.

In short... F THEM!

You don't owe them anything. As long as you're not breaking any rules/etiquette you're free to behave however you want at the table. If you want to focus on the game and not be social - you have every right to do that. I've beat $1/$2 and I've beat $2/$5 and I'm playing now $5/$10 full-time. You know what I noticed? The higher you go up the stakes the quiter the table gets. Watch $5/$10 game sometime - see how much socializing goes on - usually none/ to very little. Why? Because people are actually ****ing thinking about the game. Socializing is distracting from that. Then watch $1/$2 - it's full of social fish some of whom are often drinking. You came to play. They came to socialize. F them. Do your thing!

P.S. As for your social life - sure, work on improving that and it's a big topic of its own but don't feel that you need to improve it at the poker table.

You should disregard everything as stated above screw them, you are your own person and can act accordingly to your own will and beliefs

I thought about leveling with others, but it didn't really came to me that i'm just inciting myself. From now on i think i'll just consider myself a regular player, but i have a great desire to prove myself. (though that may reach back to my childhood, i'm not sure)

You are definitely right! I just didn't see the situation from this perspective yet. Higher stakes tables are quieter for sure, you made a huge point.

As silly as it sounds, i tend to others before me. Like i feel awkward with other players who don't think that much while i take my time. I don't feel that odd the more i play, but you certainly made the change easier!

Thank you for your replies, you've been a great help!

No worries OP chin up and good luck, while your at the table its your game nobody else's

I know by me saying this it won't suddenly change the way you think and make everything ok but ill give my thoughts anyway.

In reality, no one really cares about other peoples lifes / personality / characteristics. I mean, when you're younger you tend to but as people get older the majority of people (apart from the idiots) don't care. I mean, do you care if you're sat next to someone who is gay? or if they're white / black? Chances are you don't, why should you. It doesn't really matter at all. And this is the best way to look at it im opinion. Do the people at the table really care that you're quiet or don't talk too often, I doubt it. I know it wouldn't bother me.

Also, when people make a joke don't instantly jump to the conclusion that they dislike you or are trying to make everyone turn on / laugh at you. Just think of it as a bit of 'banter' to get the table talking, to get rid of a negative atmosphere. At the end of the day no one is going to go home and tell everyone about a little joke regarding you, actually quite the opposite and the majority of people would of forgot about it 15 minutes after it happened. Not sure if any of this will help but I hope it does.

Keep grinding mate

Thanks, your answer was helpful indeed. As i think of it, im starting to think less about my opponents less, and more about their playstyle. I played live 3 times last week, and most of the time the table was quiet, so it's not always noisy. I'm starting to feel more confident at the table having more live experience

Another thing i haven't figured out yet is what to tell when my opponents ask what i had. I kept saying i don't tell, but that made a few people angry, but now i know i shouldn't care about it. Another thing i thought about is telling lies, misleading my opponents about what i had. But i think i should just be honest and say nothing.

Silence. And I mean absolute silence. Feel free to make eye contact though. Eye contact lets 'em know you heard them and are not "afraid" and your silence is deliberate. In my experience they relent immediately as they know they're asking for something they're not entitled to and your response sends a very clear and sharp message. 99% chance no one at the table will try asking you again after you do that

As someone who chats nonstop playing live... why don't you just be a headphone and hoodie internet kid, and just not talk to anyone when you play? Sure you won't make friends and might miss chances to make people tilt against you or get info, but if you're not giving off info either just treat it like an online game only one where everyone's a spastic because it's live poker

u're one of those needlers arent u lol. do u feel that saying **** to tilt people is fair game and ethical?

To put it in a single word, yes.

It's part of the game.

I disagree but you've made your position clear and you have a right to it.

Of course trying to tilt players is ethical. LOL!

If someone has a weak mental game, and you see them steaming after a suckout, why wouldn't you put them to the test? If your objective is to make the most money possible from others, and you are aware that saying something like, "BOOM, rivered" will make this player play suboptimally, you'd be a FOOL not to.

I find it silly that some poker players can have no problem crushing degen fish who are clueless about the math, but have some personal moral code about aspects like these. It's about as silly as a bank saying, "yes we want your money, but we only want it if you give us $100 bills, it would be immoral if you gave us rolls of coins."

Its more about creating a positive environment for the recreational players. They can not know that their lack of knowledge of math is why they are losing, yet if the game is fun and sociable they will stay and continue to lose.

If on the other hand you have the poster a few posts above me who doesn't mind admitting that he needles players, your end result is a negative environment. A table with a bad mojo (aka one ******* who thinks he's gaining an edge by simply being rude to other people) is one that will either break soon or have the fish much less willing to stay and play with you. Yes you may once in a blue moon find the perfect personality who reacts so poorly to this that you gain an edge against them. Is it worth it however, to do so at the cost of pissing off any unknown number of recreational players?

do you know what ethical means?

While this might actually be the case, neither of us have proof that it works or doesn't work. I also doubt tables are going to break down simply because one person is there trying to push peoples buttons.

Yes I do. Care to explain how I have shown that I don't know what it means? Or do you not have an actual point.

Continuing the highjack:

There is behavior that is *part of the game* of golf, like aiming. Then there is behavior that is *doing anything you can to win*, like screaming during your opponents swing. If it makes him play sub-optimally you would be a fool not to scream.

There is behavior that is part of the game of poker and then there is behavior that is doing anything you can to win. Poker is a game of communication and, technically, blocking your own communication/hiding by wearing a hat, sunglasses or putting your hands in front of your face is an angle(I do this). Needling is an angle because making your opponent annoyed or angry isn't part of poker any more than screaming during your opponents swing in golf. Having your bet called then sitting there hoping your opponent will show his hand first is an angle too(I fall for this and, damn, it makes me angry cuz I'm just trying to be neighborly).

As long as so much angling is legal and widely practiced I see no ethical requirement for me to unilaterally disarm.

I think some people thinking this angling behavior in poker isn't angling, that poker is war and anything goes, is because part of poker is trying to deceive each other and deception is really "bad" so anything really does go.

I think check raising used to be thought of as unethical.

yea cuz u don't get many reads. I am just like this guy. It is my personality. I have had a really messed up life. I can read people like a book playing live. So much so that I no longer get aloud to play in the home game. I don't like casinos cuz of all the people. Once I am on the table it is a different world. I will not say anything to anybody but the dealer. I try to sit right next to or in front of the dealer to. At times I feel like I am cheating people cuz I can read them so good. You pick up on so much more when you don't talk. I talk to my self in my head. When I first started playing I would feel like I had to talk to people when they spoke to me. I would give away so much info about me cuz I don't communicate good at all. I pretty much have no friends cuz I cant speak as fast as my brain thinks. So most of what I say doesn't make sense. For the guy who made the doosh comment. Grow up its a game and not all of us can communicate and play at the same time.

If you are winning who gives a &%*&^ what anyone else thinks lol