How can they be? Until Online poker stops hiding and being secretive and using the Indians to avoid regulation we have no way of seeing what goes on. This is why they don't want to move and want the US to back off. It's lunacy.

Do online poker sites have incentive to rig their RNG? Yes. It could mean a big increase in their revenue even with just very small tweaks to their RNG.
Does it mean they are actually doing it? Not necessarily.
Do we have concrete statistical proof that pokerstars is rigged? no.
Do we have concrete statistical proof that pokerstars is not rigged? no.
With so many people suspicious of online poker integrity, I think pokerstars should hire a reputable third-party, such as American statistical association or sth. like this, to examine their data and publish the results for everybody to see, that will be good for their business if their RNG is clean. I know they claim they have hired somebody to examine their data and found no wrong, but I really dont know what this organization is and I never see any detailed research results.

We have more chance of pigs flying than any online poker site hiring anyone to inspect their servers. First of all we don't need that, we need a unbiased gaming regulatory agency to look at their hardware. This will never happen because they will continue to hide offshore or on Indian land which is not open to any laws.

This would sound perfect if spoken through a megaphone while standing on a crate while being watched by a few people who were more laughing at the spectacle instead of actually listening.

You can add a huge part about the "Amero" which was the last speech I saw given in such a manner.

Also, in before a much needed merge!

how can statistics proof if something is true or not???

how can anybody be sure if they use the software RGN and not other programs?

The Superbots theory is the best one, the most logical and easy way to rig the game, and pretty undetectable.

Except for the hundreds of people who would know about them at all the hundreds/thousands of rooms they are in use.

Plus all that statistical analysis that would detect them.

Oops...


Lizard people is by far the best theory as it does not have any of the common sense innatly easy to disprove flaws of your theory, yet still has the paranoid delusional aspect to it to make it fun to debate.

Can you explain me how could a statistical analysis detect a superbot?

spade already has many, many times how any deviation that would alter a site's income would be easily detected. The fact you cannot get what he says when he explains it is your limitation.

And you still have not dealt with the hundreds/thousands of people who would know about it which my Lizard People theory can properly deal with, since they use proper mind control techniques.

Give up on your inferior, poorly thought out , gaping hole filled paranoid beliefs and embrace the only ones that truly elude all forms of detection.

Lizard People.

As I explained you many many times the superbots could not be detected trhough statistical analisys simply because they are not rigging the distribution of cards, they are simply using their ability to see hole cards and the cards that are coming in the future streets to get advantage, just as a superuser would do.

The only good point you made is the argument that so many people inside the company would know about it that we would know about it already too.

Thats a reasonable point, but I´m not convinced you are rigght.

they banned me on cardchat for telling my opinion
stu ungar knows
stu tell me and all those people who doubt this RGN how stupid we are again
you people shud play freerolls to see how they rigg
today i played a tournament omaha and saw 85 % a pair on the board (full houses)
yesterday it was the straights...
they change it everyday as much they want....
poker is a 52 card game...online poker is different

Though I'm not even sure how these could work into the either side of argument, it would be neat to start separate +ev and -ev threads.

-ev graph thread

+ev graph thread

how do you know it's 85%?
How do you keep track?
Are you a Rain Man?

Very much so. It's a shame that when you give someone the ability to hide on land that is not governed by any laws this will happen.

Does this mean you take at complete face value and believe and agree with that guy when he says

How about you toltec, what do you think of these rigged beliefs?

I don't have to take anything he says at anything. My opinions are based on my own encoutners and research. Online poker is a terrible world that operates in places that permit to operate unregulated. This in addition to the fact that tons of collusion and other forms of manipulation are rampant. I find it hysterical that people in my country want our government to allow these crooks to operate while it legal to play. All the while the money goes out of the country. Until these people bring the hardware here and let us see the programs they use and regulate it they should be illegal because they are less than honest.

So you essentially did not care what he said as long as you could add some kind of segue to launch into your fairly routine xenophobic manifesto.

I realize you are a complete zealot to your cause, and indeed that can be blinding (and at times mildy amusing), but you may want to do a bit more riggedologist selection to quote and agree with before going into one of your rants in future.

In this case the company you kept was a guy who claimed you could tell the rigging at the play money tables because full houses came up too much one day and straights the next written in drunkspeak. Come on, that's dumb even by riggedologist standards. At least pick superbotboy over that guy.

A rhetoric question. Do any countries other than your country have honest policies? What about Great Britain for example?

Also, what would you say to all the 9/11 conspiracy nuts who think your government was in on it all along?

That's it keep up the rhetoric. Fact remains these sites are less than honest, less than fair and hide in places where there can't be regulated or inspected. If your sites were so legit why wouldn't they allow this? Why hide?

Your posts always ask tons of the standard zealot "assume negative/prove me wrong" style questions and accusations.

What your posts never do is directly answer any questions posed to you.

You got the whole conspiracy guy skill set working overtime for you

Oh, and try to agree with fewer drunk people with IQs of 12 in future. They never help your "cause."

All the best.

When your questions are along the lines of "9/11 being caused by the US government" who would answer them?

You are the one who refuses to answer the legitimate questions such as why the sites hide their servers in Canada?

When your questions are along the lines of "online poker fraud/corruption is being caused by the Canadian government" who would answer them?

Just because you label your brand of the same question "legitimate" does not make it so. The real world does not match the creativity that is your rather limited in focus thinking process.


Dude, you are just a run of the mill zealot, nothing more. World's filled with them, both real and virtual. Aside from entertainment value, what impact do you think you will ever really have? =) Even your gimmick name detracts from your message.

Where did I write that? Please provide sources for these claims because I never said that. I said that online poker uses Indian land in Canada to circumvent the Canadian government and other governing body that could legitimately govern gaming. Now can we dispense with the CNN tactics and stick to facts please?

Oh I guess the real world does like you and twists my words to say something that fits your lame argument or brings up 9/11 which has no parallel to this discussion? Dude your losing badly here, quit while you are behind.

So people can't have a view opposite yours or they can't be taken seriously? Come on Mr. Elitist, give it a rest.

So wait...is it rigged or not?

What facts other then you hate Indians. You assume complete corruption and crime without a shred of actual proof of it existing so not quite sure why you are suddenly so nitty for facts. You are a xenophobe. You hate people that are not American, it really is that simple. You use this hatred to fuel this agenda and likely more.



You were the one that quoted the drunk guy who whined about too many straights on play money tables as proof of something in your agenda. All I suggested was you pick less stupid people's words to twist in future. I twist what you say because that's the same approach you use, but I do it for amusement as I do not have an issue here that I am a zealot about.

I also realize no force in the universe would ever change your mind because as a zealot you are among the most close minded people that exist, so you note I will never actually do anything other than laugh at your lack of any proof and your use of "disprove negatives" as well as all your other extremely routine zealot, conspiracy nut tactics.

The parallel between you and 9/11 is you are effectively the guy on the street corner with the manifesto on his billboards about the "truth." Your "truth" is just based on your xenophobia, otherwise you are basically the same.

In that vein, you are doing what all conspiracy nuts do, you declare yourself the victor in a debate as if that means anything.

Only things you need to do now though is actually prove a single thing you say or actually convert a single person to your cause.




Way to use generalizations and extreme overstatements. More tricks of the trade =).

Want to be taken seriously?

Document your claims with proof that can be verified.


Want to not be taken seriously?

Scream about corrupt agencies and governments and massive evil criminal enterprises that no one has caught somehow without any proof to back it other than your innate hatred of foreigners and a lot of venom when anyone asks you to give more then rhetoric.

I know you are only capable of the latter so I actively encourage it because it is fun to see what guys like you actually say =).


Dude, you are just a loud racist basically using online poker as a tool for your views. No doubt you post similar style posts under similarly silly gimmick names about other issues that let you preach your hatred.


You will never provide a single shred of evidence. You will only ask that people disprove negatives (which is inherently flawed). That's how you roll.

It's why aside from being played with once in a while here nobody will ever take you seriously except those that share in your hatred.

Have a nice day.


Not really his actual issue oddly enough

One fact you like to ignore, but which you are very well aware of, is that only one major poker site is regulated by the KGC, and that is Cereus (UB/AP). None of the top five online poker sites in the world are regulated there.* They are however, controlled by internationally respected, legitimate governments, including the UK. Please find another line to use for your argument. Unless it's true that you only trust the US to be capable of regulating anything. If so, just say it. Then you'll at least have an honest opinion.


* (FT has dual regulation by UK and KGC due to servers being hosted at MIT).