Lol, what is "aggressive BRM", apart from an oxymoron.

BRM assumes 1 bank roll and 1 only, otherwise the whole concept of bank roll management is pointless.

It's like saying you're climbing Everest without the aid of an extra artificial oxygen supply.

Oh hang on no, but if I get into trouble half way up I have a team of Sherpas to come and help me and bring me lots of portable oxygen tanks.

P.S. He is terrible at PLO, at any stakes, so that is punting.

GTFO too! (excuse my language)

Him playing bigger games is obviously an easy out - but who could blame him for not wanting to waste his time?

It's a no win situation for him and he's not contractually obligated to do anything.

No, agressive BRM means that you have to move up and down more frequently, technically if he does that appropriately his risk of ruin is still close to 0%, you can use 10 buy ins to move up or down and still almost have no chance of busting your bankroll.

Big problem is most people who are attempting that are not disciplined enough and won't move down when they should thus resulting in busting their bankroll, pretty certain that doug has no problem moving down when he has to and has shown it more than once so far in this bankroll challenge

Yes fair enough, although pretty sure he was two tabling HU PLO 100, so that's stretching the principle.

It's also a time thing as well because if that is the strat then it introduces an extra layer of variance, otherwise not present, meaning the probability of the challenge taking much longer has increased as well as of it taking much shorter.

Overall, I don't agree with jumping up almost 3 buy in levels for shot taking, it feels like BRM cheating. Looks great if it comes off and wrong when it doesn't. IMO it's wrong regardless of results.

did he jump up 3 buy ins level? I haven't seen that

I only watched snippets, after the session had ended, but within those snippets I saw him 2 tabling HU PLO 100.

His bankroll was $1500, so somewhere in between 25 NLHE and 50 NLHE seems about the right level of buy in for it. (30 to 60 buy ins).

Given that HU PLO has a higher variance than most other poker variants, it's the equivalent of ~3 buy in levels higher.

Okay i think its time i made my own thread, it will be 5Star trust me!

in reference to the guy that was playing with his last 5k, i bet if doug knew that it was his last 5k and he would be on the street he still would play with the guy and take it off him..

thats scum imo

i think i will put it in NVG as its not really a BBV

tbh I think 1500 is fine to play NL100, PLO is very high variance so you would have to move down or up stakes a lot to follow a 15 or 10 buy ins rule but I think it's doable

The three buy in figures, e.g. 25, 40 and 75 are minimum, medium and cautious. Source: https://www.pokernews.com/strategy/a...ment-19610.htm

No-Limit Hold’em (6-max.), cash game 30 50 100
No-Limit Hold’em (full ring), cash game 25 40 75
Pot-Limit Omaha (6-max.), cash game 50 100 150
Pot-Limit Omaha (full ring), cash game 30 50 100
No-Limit Hold’em, 9-player sit-n-gos 30 50 100
No-Limit Hold’em, 45-player sit-n-gos 50 100 150
No-Limit Hold’em, 180-player sit-n-gos 100 200 500
No-Limit Hold’em, multi-table tournaments 100 200 500
No-Limit Hold’em, multi-table tournaments (large field) 200 400 600

I believe the figures for HU PLO are something in the order of 100, 200 and 400 buy ins, so my previous estimates if anything were on the conservative side.

Can you explain why you think having 25 buy ins to move up is better than having 15 buy ins, assuming you move down if you reach 15 buy ins of the limit below?

Yep going from a 50 buyin strat to 15, and moving back down after losing 1 buy in you are still on 46.67 buy ins at the previous level.

Doug wasn't quite doing this, he was two tabling 15 buy in stacks.

What it does is often causes a very volatile graph like this https://www.upswingpoker.com/10000-challenge/

I think 40 BB shots at 1 or 2 levels higher are better for a smoother graph and may in fact make the path up through the stakes faster due to being able to try again with shorter time gaps in between moving down.

but dude volatility is irrelevent if it doesn't make you tilt, goal is to reach 10k the fastest possible way with little to no risk of ruin, and it's done quicker with more aggressive BRM.

Seriously people who are playing microstakes with 40 or 50 buy ins rule are wasting so much time

Everybody might be wasting time though if Doug Polk himself cannot beat microstakes

Which will happen first?

a) Doug Polk hits $10K on the current terms of his bank roll challenge.

b) Phil Galfond launches RIO poker with real money play.

c) Doug Polk plays a live HU NHLE challenge with Tom Dwan at minimum stakes of $400/$800.

d) Bitcoin trades at either $1500 or $15000.

^^^ loled
c) Everybody actually appreciates what Doug is doing and stops nit picking everything he does to bits.

Who cares if his bankroll management isn't what all you well know high stakes crushers say it should be. Be thankful you get to see an actual high stakes pro in action. Enjoy the stream or dont watch it, simple.

From: https://www.upswingpoker.com/10000-challenge/

Day 2: 8/10/16

Doug starts the day with $119. After a 19 hour session (yes nineteen)
which saw the bankroll fall as low as $45 dollars, he finishes with $85 dollars.

Obviously this was an outlier for hours played but assigning 4 hours per session estimated where the number of hours are not stated, he has played 171.5 hours for an $827 profit (you forgot yesterday's PLO punting) so he has earned $4.82 dollars per hour.

A Macdonalds Sandwich Artist earns $9.90 per/hour plus other benefits such as a free Happy Meal.

Doug's natural level of humor and his ease in front of the camera are why so many of us subscribe to him such as in his last video when he said omaha has "too many cards." I LOLed.

Back at it over on youtube

www.Youtube.com/DougPolkPoker/live

true, but how many people sat at the computer and watched you livestream your life yesterday?

this might be interesting. why dont you livestream one day of you posting on 2+2. could be the next twitch sensation. I'd watch.


seriously doug,,, please do a pod thingy on CoinPoker ICO / Virtue / Crypto and blockchain in poker. It is by far the most interesting and maybe most important thing happening in online poker right now.

If Rast and/Coleman aren't willing to come on and talk about it then they are being dishonest with their sponsorship. Maybe include a techie that can explain important elements of this new paradigm to us non-techies.

I haven't caught every minute, but I'm enjoying the streaming and the new content. Seems like you're sticking to basics, which I think is good. Hopefully you're relaxed and enjoying yourself.

People often say these kind of things. But you can't work 19 hours straight at mcdonalds, you can't work whenever you want either. Also you can't work anywhere you want including places where $4. whatever an hour is worth more than $9.90 in the states. So microstakes poker> mcdonalds imo.

I have only gotten to see maybe twenty minutes, I always seem to catch it when I am leaving the house. Happy to see that he is back at it though, I look forward to being able to watch a full stream sometime.

I always see this point. You can make more at Subway, McDonalds, etc.....If you do well at the stake though and keep making progress, moving up, you will eventually ( hopefully ) be playing at a stake and hourly wage that way surpasses those minimum wage salaries.

I would rather put in the time at the micros, rise up to the higher limits and make some money that way, then working at Subway with the end game of becoming a manager or something. Of course, what ever makes you happiest is the key but with poker the potential is only limited by your effort, skill set and discipline to make it all come together.

The potential in poker is extremely limited because.

1) In a worse than zero sum game (rake/juice) one is reliant on other people losing.

2) The size of the industry is dwarfed by many other industries. E.g. Financial services, oil, law, manufacturing, technology and many, many more. As in Doug's great video today there are only a handful of people who have made $5M+.

3) People's bankrolls often get swallowed up or severely dented by living costs. This is a huge barrier to moving up progress.

Also people don't have losing days or go busto doing a regular day's work.

quit poker(if you aren't a clear winner) get a real job and go all-in on cryptos. yw.

1) Rake does make poker non-zero sum but not the way you describe here. The dealer wins a guaranteed portion of the pot, and adding all these winnings up is zero sum. Games are either zero sum or not, there is no such thing as “worse than zero sum”.

2) the size of many irrelevant things has no bearing on the size of a relevant thing. This is a poker forum.

3) Money is fungible. Living is expensive. These two truths have nothing to do with moving up in stakes. Other considerations, such as actually understanding variance optimal betting strategy would, however.

Any day at a jorb that would be better spent doing anything else is a losing day of work.