Who currs about 2 drops in a deck that turns 1 drops into 2 drops, 3s into 4s, and so forth? You keep talking about 2 drops and doesn't even make sense in context of Keleseth. I've personally 4/4 and higher swashburglers played. There was a 5/5 one of those on Kolento stream yesterday. Something you would expect out of a quest rogue.

Also, have you ever heard the term ceteris paribus? It's often used while doing statistical work.

Despite what stats say I kind of agree with jmakin, after playing a ton of tempo rogue recently I just don't think it is that much of a problem.

Raza change is huge. Severely cripples the OTK potential. Still a good card but the current Razakus deck takes a sizeable hit.

Patches change is great.

Bonemare change agree is not big enough to take it out of the decks it's already in.

Corridor Creeper change pretty much guts it.

I don't even get the Raza and Patches nerfs.

Like Team 5 was all like "IT'S OKAY GUISE THEYLL ROTATE SOON!" (fairly sure Iksar said something along those lines) a couple months ago when people complained, and they finally nerf them ~1 month before rotation? lol

Yup agree.

Paul you don't even play the game nor the deck. Keep pointing out stats but in action, Rogue is very vulnerable when Keleseth is not drawn. With these changes, Tempo Rogue is about to become much weaker but hopefully more interesting. I'm glad for the huge changes although no hits to Warlock seem wrong to me. I think Dark Pact should have become 2 mana at least to slow down the combo.

ahahaha, this is hilarious, nerfin hugely problematic cards right before they rotate out, really?

good call on bonemare and creeper, though bonemare will likely still see play in tempo decks

I look forwards to the 90% warlock meta.

On phone, what rotates out of cubelock? Nzoth, Mistress...anything else? And there are versions that don't run Nzoth. Definitely see that as the clear frontrunner for best deck now.

Raza, I agree with--but both cards would have been insanely popular in Wild. Raza in wild Raza Priest was unbearably strong with Reno.

That's all.

Old Gods cards rotating out that are played:

Druid-Feral/Y'Shaarj/Mark/Mire/Dark Arakkoa
Hunter-Wolf/Bat/COTW
Mage-Tome/Summoner
Pally-Blade/Inquisitor/Healing/Rag
Priest-SWH/Shade
Rogue-UnderCity/Squidface/Xaril/Shadowstrik
Shaman-Faceless/Evolve/Thing From Below
Warlock-Councilman/Rititual
Warrior-First Mate/Ghoul/Brave/Cultist/Blood

Neutral-All C'Thun/Yogg/Slitherer/Deathwing Dragonlord/Nzoth/Unbound Y'Shaarg

Any of those cards playable post-nerf? Seems like probably not on first glance. Bonemare still great in Arena I guess.

Kazazhan-

Druid-Raven/Portal
Hunter-Grandmother/Huntress/Cattrick
Mage-Portal/Book/Valet
Pally-Knight
Priest-Priest of the Feast
Rogue-Burglar
Shaman-Portal
Warlock-Imp
Warrior-Nothing

Neutral-Barnes/Curator/Arcane Giants/Medivh

Gatgetzan

Neutral-Patches/Mistress/Rat/Kazakus/Jade Spirit/Finja/Doppelganger/Bully/Ayay

Druid-Idol/Lotus/Blossom/Kun/Behemoth
Hunter-Alleycat
Mage-Kabal Lackey/Potion/Runner
Pally-Burnbristle/Chum
Priest-Potion of Madness/Pint sized/Talon Priest/Operative/Raza/Dragonfire Potion
Rogue-Shaku/Coin/Jade Shuriekn/Swarmer
Shaman-Claws/Lightining/Devolve
Warlock-Potion/Enforcer/Krul
Warrior-Sleep/Alley Armorsmith

Raza yes but OTK version will change deck.
Patches--I doubt it--probably means the end of all pirate decks which is fine.
Bonemare--I think yes but less so.
Creeper--Is probably dead except in very token decks but for the most part it's complete trash.

So here’s the thing with the nerfs. Creeper/bonemare/patches are neutral cards that every class runs in a tempo package. You nerf the lot of them and now what? Is there a tempo deck that was waiting in the wings that has been kept down by this neutral package? Not that I know of. So all blizz has really done here is make tempo weaker across the board for every class. If tempo is still good enough to outpace cubelock, every class is still gonna run all these cards, nothing changes. If it isn’t, tempo just disappears outside of Murloc paladin prob.

Raza nerf is a legit great IMO. No more killing from 30, which was the problem. Anduin is still a solid finisher and a good card. Like it.

Agree.

Seems like hunter/aggro pally should enjoy the fruits although many had the pirate package and those top tier cards but both have other cards to dump quickly. I think this should also help Tempo Mage a bunch since they have good alternatives to those packages and typically just ran Creepers.

I have been playing this week. And I played enough at the beginning of Kobold and Frozen throne to understand tempo rogue.

Tempo rogue is the very best deck when piloted by the entire populace, and second best deck the rest of the time according to part of the VS report. It's either that way because 1) Keleseth is a broken mechanic (gonna guess post nerfs it won't be as strong) 2) the deck isn't weak as you claim when you don't draw and play Keleseth turns 1-3.

How many times have you played the deck? It’s extemely weak to the two most popular ones especially as you climb in rank.

Other sites have it lower in the power ranking and falling. It’s definitely easier for the average player to run but with a decent person operating Raza priest and cube lock are much more dangerous and powerful decks. Did you watch the hwc where the deck failed and failed more against actual top tier decks piloted by some of the best players in the world. Again, I think it’s a good deck with huge holes in it. Yes it’s insanely lame when my opponent draws the nuts, but that’s true of a ton of decks. I don’t think they draw it often enough to really change my mind that much.

I agree with both nerfs in practice, but I'm more critical of the timing of both. Patches has caused headaches for how long? Raza is a more recent problem. From my perspective these things should have happened awhile back or maybe never at all since Wild seems to be the playground for broken decks and cards.

The team has always been slow to make changes. They say that changes especially nerfs cause immense confusion for casual players and a huge percentage of the population is just that. I think most pros and regular or non casual players would love more nerfs and buffs, faster but they are not here to really appease us quickly as you can see.

Freeze mage, patron, and other decks got nerfed down and both of them had some really polarized match ups and worse winrates. I don't really see tempo rogue being weak to two decks as a solid argument against part of its strength coming from pumping out bloated stats.

I would guess Tempo rogue falling is due to end of the month point farming shenanigans. Kolento was playing 40%+ Raza priest when I was watching him.

Also, even with patches not being charge might not be the end of Keleseth. Blizzard could release cards in the next year that make the card problematic. It's one of those design space cards and it should've never been printed to begin with. It's also the same deal with cubelock in a way. Blizzard seems to print cards without realizing the broken interactions they can cause.

"Oh and the villain had shadow step and Keleseth in his opening. I guess I lose because I'm not playing cubelock or Raza priest." isn't something I think is good for the game.

huh? mistcalelr was a 6 mana 4/4. so you get the effect after 6 turns and the body is ****.

keleseth is a 2/2, which is only SLIGHTLY weaker, but most importantly, you get it on TWO (or 1)

if mistcaller was a 3 mana 4/4, that is similar to keleseth.

although i love these nerfs, they are still ignoring keleseth (problem card #1) and these are like a year too late. yawn.