Not sure how unusual/unique this situation is, but a couple of my friends and I suspect a thief at our home poker game and I'd like to hear what people here think about it.

For the past 4-5 years we've had a casual weekly game with 7-8 guys who know each other quite well. Mostly Hold' Em with a little Omaha, $10 buy-in. "Albert" is the best player there -- he finishes up about 80% of the time, often $40-50 up. He also takes it the most seriously, partly because money is tight (he's got two little kids) and partly because of his high-strung personality. Funny guy, all smiles until he starts losing and then he gets genuinely upset and hostile.

About a month ago we're playing, drinking of course, having a good time, when another player says he thinks one of the two decks is light. We count them out, and there are only 48 cards. Awkward silence as we look around on the floor, etc. but they're nowhere to be found. And yes, we did count both decks beforehand.

We look in the kitchen, the pool table room, and anywhere else we can think people have been, but they're nowhere to be found. Disturbing, but we switch the deck out for a new one and continue playing. We're all friends here.

About an hour later some wives and girlfriends show up and we're going to expand the game into the pool table room (using the pool table as a second table). I flip the light on to set things up -- and there, on a shelf off to the side, are the four missing cards. Kind of an odd place for them to be, since you don't take cards out of the room at all and there's really no reason to be in that part of the pool room during the game. And when I turn them over, two of the four are aces.

I take them back in to the main room and show people, and no one remembers putting them in there. Yes there was some drinking going on, but you'd remember having gone into this room with cards and putting them on this totally empty shelf. If anyone had remembered it would have been written off by everyone as an honest mistake. But no one remembered doing that.

I talked to another member of the table today and he said he'd been watching Albert's body language when I walked in the room with the cards and he looked very nervous the whole time. He'd been watching him because there'd been suspicion on Albert last year when the cash was $40 or $50 short at the end of the night twice in one month.

I guess as I'm typing this all out it sounds like an open and shut case. I don't want to believe Albert did this but the evidence seems strong as I look at it on the page here. I think he was surprised that the cards had been found that night; it was unusual for the ladies to come over and necessitate a second table, so he probably assumed they would have been found the next day and by then no one would remember much. Or he probably thought that no one would even notice that the deck was light.

So I guess my questions are: is this a known way to cheat at a home game? he's pretty much certainly a cheater, correct? If so, how to handle it? Very sensitive since we're all friends (and one of the other players, a close friend of mine, is his cousin).

Thanks in advance. And no, I didn't steal the money or move the cards!

Without any REAL proof, I would not want to accuse someone of cheating, particularly when all of you are friends. That said, as poker players, all we have is our word, especially when it comes to things like the integrity of the game.

Two suggestions . . . the first deals with the "bank" I would recommend the following. One person holds the cash from all buy-ins (or secures it in a closed container of some sort). Regardless, the idea is that one person secures the cash that players have put into the game each night. A second player keeps a paper record of the tally (ie 5 buy-ins of $100.00 = $500.00 in the "bank"). This way you will have an independent "audit" of your nightly cash flow, and ALL players will know that things are being monitored. Avoids temptation for ANY player who might be so inclined.

The second is to count down the decks being used. You do not have to make it obvious, just do it every time it is your turn to deal and, if using a second deck, have the player next to you do the same. This makes it less likely that there will be tampering, and no one needs to be suspicious of anyone else at the table. You can explain it away as something you saw on TV, and wanted to bring it to the game to make it more like the casino action you see the pros play.

Thanks, Milo -- that is what we do now for the bank. All money goes to Albert's cousin, and we haven't had a problem since then.

I'm about 80% on Albert having put the cards in the pool room on purpose. That two of the four were aces seems important, since he obviously would've picked A's to dump to maximize his cheat take. But as you say, not 100% sure so very reluctant to accuse.

Do not accuse him unless your 100% and even better if you have proof for the group. Other than that just keep an eye on things and count the deck down on each deal. If you have an even number of players and are using 2 decks make sure someone else is counting the deck you will never deal from.

Curious what the suit and value of each of the 4 cards were? (e.g. AA + suited connectors? or what was removed...)

Agree on what was said above tho - audit/secure cash, and keep a running count of cards after each hand - the problems will magically go away. We do these in our weekly low stakes friendly/social game, and have never had a problem. Bringing in friends/faces all the time - would like to think we've kept it under control this way.

TR3V -- I don't recall what the other two cards were, just the As. If it was done intentionally, I'm guessing it was four cards from an Omaha hand. But who knows.

I don't follow the logic here. Good chance the cards were deliberately held out somehow, but how do we decide it must be albert? "his body language was weird" is pretty meaningless. There are many other players there. Not all cheaters win.

I'm not sure there even is a cheat happening. 4 cards teleporting into another room is kinda suspicious, but your assumption has to always be "simpler explanation" until you have solid evidence. The vast majority of cheating suspicions are simply paranoia. TBH, the rush to judge this albert characater fits that pattern. "the guy wins, so we're ready to assume he's a cheater the first time something weird happens."

That said, there's a couple ways to cheat by holding out cards: 1) you keep them in your lap or sleeve, and trade them into your hand when they help you (which leaves you with a couple extra meaningless cards temporarily). 2) by knowing specific cards are missing, you have more information and can know what to draw to better than players who think the deck is right.

Like the others said, no real proof Albert was cheating. Just count the deck at the beginning of the night to make sure your starting with a full deck. One player to the bank and keep a eye on everyone. Use a cut card aswell

Constant winners usually get suspected as being the one when these things come up. The fact that 4 cards were missing and you play Omaha, well, is there a chance someone with too many drinks got up and left with his hand?

Once you have secured the bank and the decks against the "errors" you noted, I think you will see the issue resolve itself. I agree with others re: making accusations. Without cast iron proof, you are better off letting sleeping dogs lie. Just as likely to have been an innocent mistake (the cards) as a legit cheat attempt. Is the drink storage in that area?

Suspicion but no proof means you need to watch him (and everyone really) closer. Pay close attention to Albert (and I hope that's not his real name) especially when he fold/mucks and when he deals/shuffles. Until you catch him in the act, you can't accuse him.

AA and two very low cards (2 4 os ) would make a decent Omaha hi lo starting hand, but hiding them away from the table in an unused dark room?? Also making a deck 4 cards light is usually enough for somebody to notice eventually ( as they did)! Now what could have happened is that when the deck was proved light and you all went looking , the culprit put the cards in the room on the shelf. But this assumes he some how took the 4 cards out of the deck with no one looking earlier.

All this is pretty goofy for a $10 buy in social game IMHO! You have a very strange event, no real proof, and some suspicions about one player based on him acting nervous and " needing the money " more than the rest of you?? Instead of being "open and shut" this is very weak! Of course be vigilant and take some precautuions like other posters have suggested. If you are wrong and you say or do something agressive to "Albert" this could wreck your game. It's already in a bit of trouble with a small bank being $40-$50 short TWICE in a month!

And one last thing, when possible cheating is discovered, the real culprit (another player) may very well try to cast suspiscions on someone else. Just sayin. Best of luck, hope you can resolve this .

Don't get too caught up on the cards being found in a weird spot. if someone held them out to use them later, he has to hide them somewhere weird once it's discovered that the deck is short.

Some procedure things that everyone should do anyway, but you should definitely do now (and apply to everyone just in case it wasn't albert):

Cards always on the table.
Watch cards that are mucked. It seems trivial in hold'em, but take the extra half a second to make sure someone mucks the right amount of cards.
Count the deck regularly (as part of this, set the decks a-k all suits, before you start, might as well make sure you have the right 52 cards, and also do that if there's any sort of break in the action).

Also, if you want to be a little extra paranoid/make sure things are ok, every once in a while when you are shuffling complain that the cards are sticky and get up and change the deck.

I'm sorry - what evidence are you talking about? If this post is the whole story, then you have absolutely no evidence at all. Someone's body language read is not evidence. It's a wild guess.

Yes, something fishy is going on. But you don't know who's causing it. Does anybody remember seeing anyone enter the pool table room?

I've won the last two tournaments straight in one of my home games. Does that mean I cheated?

I'm with you up to this point.

Not sure where this statement came from though. There is more to his story than that.

It seems that whenever there is a "home game cheater" thread, the OP always starts out with some variation of "this guy always wins..."

I was just illustrating a point. A winning record at a home game is not evidence of cheating even a little bit.

Well, aren't you doing your version of the same thing? "These threads are always about someone winning..." When in fact, there is more to the story than that. As circumstantial as the evidence is, it is not just that the guy wins.

Albert wins because he's the best player, no doubt. As far as the possible stealing from the bank and then cheating, well, he's kind of an odd guy. If he does do it, I'm guessing it's for the thrill of it or cynicism about life, something psychological like that.

Interesting that you all here are less suspicious about it than I am. Maybe I'm connecting dots that aren't there, or maybe you need to know the guy. The combination of previous suspicion of taking money + aces being two of the missing + only reason they were found that night is that we happened to need the extra table, which is rare + body language (funny to see a poker player say body language is "meaningless" -- tells are real, right?) +, and this is the kicker, no one said "Oh yeah, that was me" or even "that might've been me" once it was discovered tells my inner Sherlock that something fishy happened.

Ya know, I guess the best evidence might be if "Mr Albert" stops coming to your game due to the dustup. We had a theft of medication from our house some time ago during a Friday session. We had 6 possibles and we let a few others (not there when it happened) in on it. One of the 6 ( a semi reg) stopped coming and has not been back again. No proof, but it seems our problem is solved. Maybe an indirect approach similar would work.

You are connecting dots that aren't there, yet. You need proof and you have none. All you have is suspicions. Catch him in the act or don't accuse him.

With the potential insight you have into this person, you might be onto something, and we don't see it. We're taking a more court-of-law approach to the situation. Shifty eyes or a jittery foot is not admissible evidence.

I hope if he has been up to something, he stops, but in the meantime, I'd keep a close eye on him when he is handling the deck.

Nunna, you have no evidence at all. Let me ask you something. The friend that told you about Albert having weird body language that night, is he a CIA agent, maybe he is Phil Ivey?

As you said, Albert has 80% winrate in your games. Think about that for a sec. Why would he need to cheat further? Is he a stupid guy? Does he have history of stealing?

I'll tell you this. A lot of people don't like to lose from the same guy a lot, and if you were to bring up this issue to your group of friends with who you play poker with, I have no doubt that 90% of them would agree with your suspicions and turn on Albert. Not because of the evidence, but because a lot of people (especially us men) have trouble admitting when someone is better at something than us.

At least be straight with the guy and tell him that you don't want him in the game because he's too good for you.

Nunna,

Why did you figure Albert for stealing from the bank?

I'm not seeing much in the way of evidence that he's your guy. Certainly possible and perhaps there is more you're not telling us, but it seems like the biggest knock against him is his being a winning player.

I was thinking about your two bank thefts. You have a $10 BI right? Max? I assume folks rebuy for $10 more when they bust, but still $40 or $50 missing from the size of bank your stakes can build is really a very large %. And this happened twice within a short time? Was there any resolution? Did your game just go on with players saying WTF lets play. If this was our game it would be like $200 light each session and we would not have let it go, especially since I am the banker/host and have to eat shortages. The more I read this the more I am reminded of the AC/DC song "I put the finger on you" You and your group likely do have a problem, but it might not be Albert in the end.

He wasn't coming to the game regularly for a while since his second kid has just been born, just like once per month. And both times it happened, a month apart, he happened to be there.

0 for 4, it's the unexplained shady events that bother us, the circumstantial evidence of which points in the direction of but not directly at Albert.