Despite being an OCD nut job that sends out a 50 page document of rules and waivers, Larry does a very nice job of running poker games. The people who attend are nice, most are good to excellent players and I always have a good time. The following is a copy of my blog post from today that summed up my experience last night at his tourney and side games. (note: I dumb down the lingo for people who read my blog who dont play poker on a regular basis.)


Limiting one's strategy

Last night I donked out by the 1st break in a tourney at Lottery Larry's house. I was already getting short stacked and was on the cut off position (the seat right before the button) with no one in the pot yet. It didn't matter what cards I had as I needed to pick up the blinds and this was a rare pot that had no one entering in from early position. (I had 10 8 off suit) I went all in and prayed no one would wake up with a real hand and just then the host himself starting counting out his chips. It looked like he might call but was worried that he wouldn't be left with alot of chips if he lost as he was counting the stack that he would have left if he called. I held out hope that he would fold.

Well, my read was completely erroneous and he was counting his remaining chips so he could announce his all in re-raise. I figured I was pretty much cooked after that announcement, but it turned out to be a good thing for me as he pushed out the big blind who showed pocket 9's as he folded.

Lottery Larry tabled his pocket 4's.

I was elated to have 2 overs and an near coin flip situation to double up and stay alive. I queried as to why he went ape with the pocket fours and he seemed to have a superstition about "the power of 4". I guess he's either a Charmed fan (and got it wrong- it's the power of 3) or has unusual positive expected value with pocket 4's. Usually, I say that superstition is bad luck, but the flop was unkind to me as was the turn and river and I was sent to the rail before the night was still young.

This was becoming a regular situation for me this year and I don't know if I've been unlucky or just playing poorly. I'll have to reassess my play when I have more time and try to recall situations and see if I acted too early with my pushes.

Shortly after my exit I played in a side cash limit game that was a rotation between Hold 'em and Omaha. Omaha is a cruel mistress when played as limit. As hard as it is to push out people drawing in no-limit or pot-limit, it's a damned near miracle to chase anyone out when you have the stone cold nuts on the flop and vulnerable to the flush or full house.

The one hand that almost had me as a tilt monkey the rest of the night I had KdKhTdAh. I was double suited, paired up and on the button in great position, so I raised. Of course, everyone called including the blinds. The flop came Qs Jc 9h. I had the nut King high straight. It was bet, so I raised and everyone called! The turn was still safe but started to get dangerous as an 8s peeled off. It was checked to me so I had to bet and of course everyone called. I guess I should feel fortunate that I was getting a big pot for such a strong hand, but I just knew that the river was going to kill me with so many people still in the hand. Another jack hit the table.

Fudge

It was bet and I really had no choice but to donate and call. Of course I lost to the full house held by a James Caan look-alike. At least he didn't go all Sonny on me and have me whacked.

Considering I have not played limit in a long time, I did make a nice recovery. Maybe I was just getting lucky but I felt like I was making some nice bets and check raises at the correct times and maximizing my profits. I was ahead when I should have left and started to get some cold cards when I stayed a bit too long. I did just about break even for the game. The silver lining was that I donked off some chips to Larry's wife, so both my host and hostess benefited from my appearance. I hope they repay the favor if they come to my cash game in April.

Don't open-push with T8o from the CO. If you were short-stacked that early and it wasn't due to a suckout, you may need to adjust your game. I like Larry's push, but I also don't want to get banned.

The short stack was from being nitty and not being involved in alot of pots as i was somewhat card dead. The best hands I was getting was baby pairs. It was mostly survival play after the 4th round due to the escalating blinds. Starting stacks were 500, I hovered slightly above or below all game. When the blinds were 20/40 and I had 400 I pushed. Yeah, it probably a touch too early, but I contend that it was good spot to do it considering it was one of the 1st times a pot wasnt entered that early and overbets were being met by folds at that point.

btw- Im not saying my thinking is correct- it's what I need to look at and I appreciate the advice

Oops, my bad, my tiny brain read first break as first round. So, yeah, I can easily see getting in a push/fold situation. However, T8o in the CO ain't the hand to use. The CO is not the button. It's only one position, but it makes a huge difference for this kind of thing.

LOL- coward!


When have I EVER banned anyone for abusing my play?

Tell us what you REALLY think, you wuss....

I've often found that people treat the button as a steal position, more than the cutoff, when in the blinds.

So, I'm not sure if your statement is correct. At worse, it's a smaller difference imo... and may be a better spot to steal in.

He SHOWED the nines? I went senile again, then- I thought he just claimed nines

You've read various DPC reports, and you STILL dare to question The Power of 4????

.... and so the fools shall learneth TPo4 lesson.... maybe this time it will sink in.

Well, when I take 4th in the tourney... and the hosts net $5... then I double my stack playing $1-3 stud.... and the hosts lose $1....

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for me to donk off my huge fortune at your house.

Agree that people see the button as an "obvious steal", and they'll often comment about it, but they'll still mostly fold to it. But more importantly, by doing it on the CO you're facing 50% more hands, and the button suddenly sees the dead blind money as a reason to re-push. T8o doesn't hold up well under those conditions (but probably the best preflop result you could reasonably hope for for this time).

This is why I like to start my push/fold with an M around 10-12. I'm still big enough to be a threat, it gives me wiggle-room to get out of push/fold for a while, and it sets up the big hands should I be lucky to get one. But then, I'm got Mad Poker Skillz so I'm not in this situation until bubble time (and short-handed), which certainly affects how people react.

I was once told about the power 4 by a wise old man...

Hmmmmm...

Two overs (I think), hell yeah! Go for it!...Oh Sh_t a pair of 4's, prepare to be assimilated.

P

pfap - LL's tourneys turn into a push and pray game after the first 1.5 hours, FWIW. At least that's what I encountered when I attended. I couldn't make last night's unfortunately.

not my fault you dont know how to keep chips that I dump off to you.

I wouldnt say that it's that bad, but if you arent getting lucky to get hands, the 5th round isnt kind. But as with any tournament there are end stages that are going to be push and pray.

Compared to what, exactly? So, you're saying it's a pushfest after Round 5.

Let's do a little comparison:

Typical House Special DPC tourneys:
T5k no antes
1 - T25/50
2 - T50/100
3- T100/200
4- T150/300
5- T200/400 (M of 8.33 of starting stack)
Break-
6- T300/600
7- T400/800
8- T600/1200 (M of 2.8)
9- T800/1600
Break-
10- T1000/2000
11- T1500/3000

T4500 with antes
1 - T25/50
2 - T50/100
3- T75/150 (M of 20)
4- T100/200 25 ante (M of 8.2 compared to starting stack)
5- T150/300 25 ante
10:00 short break
6- T200/400 50 ante
7- T300/600 50 ante
8- T500/1000 100 ante (M of 1.8)
9- T700/1400 100 ante


Here's the casino structures that I could get to online. Note the start times and/or days (as in, how much time do they get to play?)

So, which of the above does NOT become a pushfest after 5 rounds.... and they have more time/rounds to play with? And look at the comparisons at Round 8

You know of a better home game structure, for a midweek tourney, or if you can come up with a better one that will keep the tourney to 4 1/2 hours, let me know what it is.

(M of LOL)

haha - I have to appreciate that

I'm not sure where you think you need to defend yourself. I was simply stating my opinion on the structure. It's a fun time and I understand the need for it to end early. Still, there's little post-flop play at your tourney once the antes are introduced because of how one can make themselves and others pot-committed with a simple preflop raise. I just think that the decisions come quicker, that's all. There is no way to change the tourney to still keep it on time. I accept that and that's why I was unable to make the last one (wouldn't be able to get there on time).

And using a Borgata SNG as a comparative tourney is a bit misleading, considering yours is a multi-table affair and the SNGs see people go out in about 5 minutes most of the time. THey rarely last 2 hours. The M of LOL is classic, though. Kudos.

Not defend myself, as much as give a rebuttal to your point, if anyone else is looking to learn about home tourney structures and why they are formed as they do. Also, people don't always realize how fast most casino tourney structures are.

We used to have a broader/slower start, but then the pushfest came at FT time, or in the middle. I changed things this season to accomodate those complaints, so that the play around the money area would give people a little more room.

If you end up deciding to play in the DPChIT tourney at the end of the season, you'll get a chance for a deeper structure. Last year, the people of played ranged from 180BB to 800BB (average of 480BB) as their starting stack, and it was set up to run about 6 1/2- 7 hours.

I was serious about the "find a better structure" comment. I've made multiple changes through the years, based on input and problems we've run into. I'm always looking for other possibilities and since you bounce around to different home games, you might have seen something that works.

Well, my fav tourney is one that starts you off with 250BB and the blinds are every 30 min...thats just not realistic for most tourneys

believe me, yours is better than most i've been to. i just tend to label 'pushfests' anything where one big loss cripples you. my definitions may be off.

Oh, I agree. I'm just trying to think of ANY tourneys I've played in, casino or home game, that this wasn't true.

Methinks you must be a bigger shark than you've let on, if you have a lot of experience at tourneys stacked so deeply that one big loss does NOT cripple you....

:P