Weve had a £10 freezeout home game for some time. 5000-8000 chips depending on whether there is a rebuy and how long we want to play for.

The maniacs in my home game are clamouring for re-buys. If so then the nits demand an add-on. My preference is for some sort of 1 rebuy or add-on (if u havent rebought). Whatever I do I want it to be fair.

My experience is that once a few re-buy, everyone adds on. Thus the game becomes twice the price. Upsetting the poorer players (in skills and finance) who just want to play for £10. Also the game goes on much longer ,which isnt welcome on week nights.

I dont want to force folk into playing for twice what we always have done.
Yet
Id also rather not drop levels out (but will if its the best way).
Instead Im wondering if rebuy/add-on can be structured in a fairer way?

I play in a local game where you get 8000 total, however 5000 is in chips, and 3000 is held back as a sort of pre-bought rebuy. You can use it anytime in the 1st hour, but if u go "all in" before cashing it in then it is not included in the "allin". If u lose the all in the u can cash it in. As u can if u win it too of course.
It seems to give maniacs a 2nd chance. What do you think?

What other alternatives are there? perhaps starting stack of 5000, 1 rebuy (5000), and 1 addon. But the add-on is capped so that players can only addon to their stack so that they have say up to 1.5 times the starting stack in front of them?

eg if you had 5500 in front of you you could add-on another 2000 for £4 to reach the cap of 7500. But if you had only 2000 in front of you you could add-on the full extra 5000 (for £10)
THis means folk with mid range chipstacks can stay ahead of those that rebought.

Or is this unfair on the chipleaders?

Since we play for £10 for usually 5000, charging £1 per 500 chips is easy.

Any suggestions appreciated. thanks

Current Structure:

£10 freezeout

20min blinds till 8th level, then 15min till heads up, then 10mins

25/50
50/100
75/150
100/200
150/300
200/400
300/600
400/800
600/1200
800/1600
1000/2000
1200/2400
1500/3000
2000/4000

How about this?

Make it a 'second chance' or 'triple chance' tournament.

Keep the buy-in the same, or maybe a little bit more, say 12 or 15.

Give players the same starting chips, plus 1 or 2 tokens.

If they are felted before the break, they may exchange 1 token for a new starting stack.

If they reach the break they can then exchange any remaining token(s) for an add-on(s).

Gives maniacs a second or third chance, gives nits the add-ons they crave - keeps the price low.

hmm I like the 2nd chance idea. But wont this mean we just end up with x2 or x3 the chips in play? Leaving us with a much longer game.

We could possibly try starting with slightly less chips. Say 4000, with a "2nd chance" of 3000. That would keep chip count reasonable and mean that maniacs are not advantaged with a full new starting stack.
The "2nd chance" token can be/must be used in the 1st hour, as well as being used after being felted in the 1st hour

How does that sound? Can anyone suggest a better option?

thanks again

It seems to me that you have a fundamental problem that structure won't really address.

It seems to me you have two groups of players. You have a group who want to rebuy and add-on effectively playing for higher stakes. and another group that doesn't want to play for more money.


Why not just reduce the buyin. Instead of 10 pounds with rebuys and add ons. Play for 3 pounds with rebuys and addons. This allows the players who don't want to spend as much to rebuy and add-on and still not spend mor ethan they wanted to.

The second issue is the time. Obviously if you don't change the structure but add more chips in the form of rebuys and addons the tournament will take longer. Either start earlier to avoid going too late, or speed up the structure on the nights you don't want to play to late.

We ran into a problem like this a few years back. We solved it by running a game with a €10 buyin and 3 rebuys max allowed for €5 each. We gave 3 tokens per player at the start, only one could be used for the addon if you had any left.

One of our local casinos does it's RA tournaments that way.

You get T5k in chips, and two rebuy chips.

• You can, if felted, use a rebuy chip for T2k chips for almost as much as the T5k cost you.
• If you make it to color-up, there is a rebuy for as much as the buyin for slightly less than the buyin cost.
• ...and, you can also, at the color-up, buy one or two T2k rebuys with any remaining, unspent, rebuy chips.

So perhaps make it 15 min levels after the 1st hour? and drop 1 or 2 levels

I think some sort of 2nd chance chip is the answer. Not sure

wow you must end up with a lot of chips in play! up to 14k per person

how many starting chips and how many for rebuy and add-on?

Those that complain about rebuys at our home game say that the wealthier players are simply buying a chip advantage, instead of playing for it. Those that want it say that a bit of bad luck can mean their poker eve is over in 20 mins

ok how about this:

£10 buy-in, 4k starting stack with 3k 2nd chance chip
2nd chance chip can be used anytime in 1st hour, or must be used when felted or at end of 1st hour.

same blinds as OP, however lengths are:
20 min blinds for 1st 5levels, then 15min, then 10 min for heads up (at discretion of HU players)

alternatively:

£5 buy-in, 4k starting stack
1 rebuy or add-on for £5
rebuy gets u 4k
add-on gets u 5k

with same blind lengths as above

It doesn't much matter -- remember, chips are worth 50% or so of their value every half an hour in a tournament.

100BB worth of chips at 8pm is only worth 50BB at 8:30pm, and it's nearly worthless by 9:30.

£10 for 5000 chips, one rebuy of 5000 chips for £10 within the first hour. If you don't bust you get an add-on of 2500 free of charge at the end of the first hour. The nits and the maniacs both feel like they are getting the best deal and you take all their £££.

Cash game on the kitchen table for the first outs.

this sounds like the solution. Simple and clear. Ill put it to the table
thx

1 rebuy each, no add-ons. Getting free chips is not a good idea.

Well they are not really free. They are an add-on that you get at the end of the first hour. If you bust before then you can rebuy for £10 but you can't get the add-on because you busted. If rebuy fans don't like this then they are missing the point and should play blackjack.

I dont see how that resolves the OP issue.

The complaint I hear with this is those who have played well enough not to rebuy, but perhaps have less than their starting stack. Perhaps even felted the guy that rebought, after rebuys they now have less chips then those who were able to buy back in. Of course it costs the rebuyer more to play, however this leads me to complaint no2: those with less money to spend are disadavantaged

We want dont want the cost of our home game to push out those that dont want to double their buy-in

Why should a richer but less skilled player gain an advantge through rebuys?

If there are players who want to play for higher stakes ..... then the 2nd chance chip doesn't satisfy them. In fact it makes it worse.

If I don't want to play for 3 hours for a $100 first place. Adding the second chance chip while not increasing the buyin means now I have to play 4 hours for the $100 first place..... If I want more money at stake this is no help.

I recently had a small tournament with some buddies where it was one flat buy-in, but everybody got an additional stack of chips (i.e. "add-on") which could be taken at any time, but had to be taken by the XX level. This was included in the price and did not require additional cash for "rebuying." Worked great. Nobody used it until someone went broke, then that person used it and got back into the game for another hour or so. One guy used it when the XX level came around. Just an idea that you might incorporate.

be a little more clear....1 rebuy, 1 add on(or no add on). Not allowed to rebuy until you have no chips.

In our game is one re-buy and one add-on allowed. Re-buys you have forfeit any chips you currently have. You may forfeit your add-on for a second re-buy. (i.e. if you bust a second before the add-on, you may re-buy but will not be allowed to add-on.) Re-buys and add-on cost the same as the buy-in and you get the same amount as chips as the buy-in (50,000).

If you survive to the break, you may re-buy and add-on at the same time.

We have been running a re-buy, add-on tournament lately, and everyone likes it, mainly because it keeps everyone in the game for more than the first hour.

We start with T3,500, and cut the buy-in in half. In our case, we used to buy in for $20, so for this type of tournament we buy-in for $10.

During the first four blind levels, if someone busts they can re-buy for another $10 and get another T3,500 stack. Re-buys are unlimited.

At the end of the re-buy period (end of fourth level), anyone can (and everyone does) add-on T5,000 chips for $10. The stack is a little higher because it is worth quite a bit less, relative to the blinds.

From there, it is a freeze-out.

I thought the re-buys would make people a lot more aggressive during the first few blind levels, but so far, no one has gone LAG-tastic. But it is a viable strategy, especially if your players don't know to adjust. Everyone uses it as a safety net in case they get cold-decked, and just really play badly.

The more I think about it, I might just get my LAG on the next time we do this.

Big K,
We do re-buys only when people bust out. I like the idea of giving people the option of forfeiting their chips to re-buy sooner. That also opens up the re-buy/add-on trade-in for a T8,500 stack even if you can't manage to go broke with a short stack at the end of the re-buy period.

Say you had T500, go all in and everyone folds. You now have T800. The re-buy period is now over. The way we play it now, you are stuck with T800. You pay $10 to have T5,800. With Big K's method, you could choose to pay $20 for T8,500. Not a monumental difference, but some might like that option.

It used to be you could only re-buy if you had less than the starting stack but the re-buy was added-on to the existing stack. This was pissing people off. For example, if I had 49,000 and you had 55,000, I was allowed to "re-buy" and add-on and start "the real game" with 149,000. You, however, were only allowed to add-on and would start the "the real game" with only 105,000. You can see the problem. It's why we started the forfeit re-buy. Sometimes people were actually trying hard to end with just under the starting stacks.

At the end of the re-buy period, having less than half starting stack is an easy decision (unless you are having a bad night) to forfeit your chips and start "the real game" with 100,000. It's when I have a 25,000-35,000 stack that makes the decision difficult. Can the extra 15-25,000 chips make a difference? Do I want to pay the $25+5* for the extra chips?
*-TOC collection (optional)

The forfeiture re-buys really only happen at the end of the re-buy period although we had an occasional forfeiture re-buy earlier in the session but it does provide another dynamic. Down to 1000 chips in the 300-600 (3rd round) blind level, do you re-buy now or do you hope to go on a heater? But if you do go on the heater, wouldn't it be better to have chips? But is the prize worth paying the re-buy if you don't have to? etc., etc.

It does add an interesting twist on strategy, however you roll it. Just like having no re-buy or add-ons creates a game that--while it is the default or "normal" game in most people's minds--has it's own game dynamic.