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Was my ruling correct? Was my ruling correct?

03-18-2011 , 09:46 PM
So the set is in a tourney, and an interesting situation came up, as the dealer (a new player) made the same mistake twice, but to me, as the situations were quite diffenerent, i argued that the practice used in the first situation should not be the same in the second situation. Here it goes:

a) 4 players to the flop. 1 player moves all-in and everybody calls. The dealer then forgets to burn a card and exposes "what should have been the burn card" as the turn card.
I ruled, that since it would influence the later action of the players still remaining in the pot - then the card should not be removed and be replaced by "the correct turn card". So we kept the card he wrongly put out (we kept the burn card as the turn card)

b) Later on, 2 players goes all-in pre-flop. Dealer puts out the flop correctly, but then again fails and forgets to use a burn card upon putting out the turn card. In this situation i ruled, that since no players were left to make any action - in this situation it would be better to replace it with the correct card. (we replaced the burn card with what would have been the turn card if it had been dealt out correctly)

The thing is, one player felt that it was unfair that the ruling was different (as the burn card that was exposed in situation 2 would have let him survive if we had kept it as the turn card like we did in situation 1),
but i felt that the since there were only two players (and no remaining action) - then the situation was very different, and the solution was better

Was this correct of me, or should i have done something else?
Was my ruling correct? Quote
03-18-2011 , 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 89th Street
a) 4 players to the flop. 1 player moves all-in and everybody calls. The dealer then forgets to burn a card and exposes "what should have been the burn card" as the turn card.
I ruled, that since it would influence the later action of the players still remaining in the pot - then the card should not be removed and be replaced by "the correct turn card". So we kept the card he wrongly put out (we kept the burn card as the turn card)
Was this correct of me, or should i have done something else?
Only significant action could keep the card there, in situation #1. You stopped it before then, the burn card should have been burned and the correct turn card flipped over.

Why? Because the burn card is there for a reason- so no one can potentially see it (or marks on it) and have extra knowledge.

Have active players still in it doesn't make it a change in ruling.
Was my ruling correct? Quote
03-19-2011 , 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lottery Larry
Only significant action could keep the card there, in situation #1. You stopped it before then, the burn card should have been burned and the correct turn card flipped over.

Why? Because the burn card is there for a reason- so no one can potentially see it (or marks on it) and have extra knowledge.

Have active players still in it doesn't make it a change in ruling.
same as turning over 4 cards on the flop.
Was my ruling correct? Quote
03-19-2011 , 01:46 AM
Bad ruling on #1, good on 2. Larry summed it up well
Was my ruling correct? Quote
03-19-2011 , 04:11 AM
Yeah, they are both the same situation, How many players are left to act shouldn't change the ruling.
Was my ruling correct? Quote
03-19-2011 , 08:18 AM
Okay. So I should just have replaced it with the correct card and let it act as a burn can that everybody sees?

Then, hypothetically, if someone had made a bet before someone realized that the wrong card had been "turned over" - would that change the situation?

Last edited by 89th Street; 03-19-2011 at 08:24 AM.
Was my ruling correct? Quote
03-19-2011 , 08:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 89th Street
Okay. So I should just have replaced it with the correct card and let it act as a burn can that everybody sees?
Yes.
Was my ruling correct? Quote
03-19-2011 , 10:12 AM
here is the rule from Robert's Rules of Poker:
Quote:
16. If the dealer fails to burn a card or burns more than one card, the error should be corrected if discovered before betting action has started for that round. Once action has been taken on a boardcard, the card must stand. Whether the error is able to be corrected or not, subsequent cards dealt should be those that would have come if no error had occurred. For example, if two cards were burned, one of the cards should be put back on the deck and used for the burncard on the next round. On the last round, if there was no betting because a player was all-in, the error should be corrected if discovered before the pot has been awarded, provided the deck stub, boardcards, and burncards are all sufficiently intact to determine the proper replacement card.
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03-19-2011 , 12:15 PM
This RROP seems like a very good handbook - could someone link me to it or something like that?
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03-20-2011 , 01:28 AM
In casinos doesn't the exposed card go back in the deck and it is re-shuffled?
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03-20-2011 , 02:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by killabeekill
In casinos doesn't the exposed card go back in the deck and it is re-shuffled?
Not anywhere i have ever seen.
Was my ruling correct? Quote
03-20-2011 , 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by killabeekill
In casinos doesn't the exposed card go back in the deck and it is re-shuffled?
a prematurely exposed turn card could be, but not an exposed burn card. This is similar to a card flashed during the initial deal -- simply exposed for the whole table to know is dead.
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03-21-2011 , 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman
The most current version is at Robert Ciaffone's own web site http://www.pokercoach.us/.
Was my ruling correct? Quote
03-21-2011 , 12:08 PM
^ That link is in the FAQ, as well.
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03-21-2011 , 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tycho_bray
The most current version is at Robert Ciaffone's own web site http://www.pokercoach.us/.
"I have also constructed a version of my rules that has been altered in a manner to make it appropriate for private games, Robert's Rules of Poker for home games. "

I'll have to eyeball this version, see where the differences are.
Was my ruling correct? Quote
03-22-2011 , 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lottery Larry
"I have also constructed a version of my rules that has been altered in a manner to make it appropriate for private games, Robert's Rules of Poker for home games. "

I'll have to eyeball this version, see where the differences are.
From this version:

Quote:
This rulebook for private games was made by taking the document constructed for cardroom use and making the appropriate changes. Most of those changes are in wording, but there are a few of substance. Here are some examples. A warning is given regarding the legality of hosting a poker game. The restriction on the maximum number of raises on a betting round was set at a bet and three raises for all limit poker forms, which is the traditional rule for private games. The procedure for shuffling and cutting is described. The time one may be gone from a game has been shortened.
No major changes.
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