In my game, we had the general rule that if no one was out, people could show up late from prior commitments and buy-in with a fresh stack . . .

This was stretched to its limits as someone showed up 5 levels into the game, as no one was knocked out, and bought in.

Some complained at an unfair advantage of buying in late (shortstacks, except me I had lost over half my stack but still allowed the buy in).

So, what do you think? I'm trying to get as many players as I can and maintain a friendly game. There's no real advantage of buying in late, is there? And besides we only do it for people we know got held up somewhere else.

5 levels in-how shortstacked is the guy when he buys in?

I'd put a limit on late buy ins-either based on a time frame or level. I've seen both used. As an example, if someone isn't there in the first half hour or two levels (whatever you use), he can't play the tourney. I think 5 levels in is a fairly extreme example, but picking a cutoff where a sidegame is about to start is a good idea. That way, if someone shows up too late, they missed out on the tourney, but the get to play with a couple of guys who got knocked out early.

of course, if people knew they couldn't buy in late, they might make a greater effort to be on time, but I assume you thought of that.

There isn't a mathematical advantage that I can think of, unless the player is below-average skill. They are still buying in for the average stack, and paying the average price.

Another option is to give them a blinded-off stack, as if they started the same time as everyone else, but haven't been playing their hand. That's sort of a mess if you put those blinds in play by giving the late player a seat and a stack and simply posting his blinds -- the players immediately around him get an advantage. If he never shows up, will you be able to collect the entry fee?

I don't know how you blind off his stack and not put the chips on the table, though. Seems like it would throw the earth off balance somehow.

Assuming you are +ev in the tournament, it's better to buy into the beginning. As deganken said, the only reason you would buy in late is if you're bad. The players using that to their advantage don't have an advantage on you, so don't worry about that. If everyone is 0 ev, it doesn't matter at all, as long as no one has been knocked out.

A blinded off stack, distributed through the table via normal blinds would put the player in question at even more of a disadvantage, because not only would he have less than a full stack, everyone at the table will average more than a full stack, so to make it more fair, you could just completely remove stack from the table until he gets there and keep track of the hands played/blind levels and give him less. Or a certain amount for each level less? Either way, I don't encourage blinding people off.

I remove one set of blinds and antes for every 15 minutes. I also set a limit to how late someone can be, usually 4 levels.

In my weekly league, if you are going to be late, you must let the league manager know in advance, and you must arrive by the end of the first hour. He draws your seat and places your stack, and that stack gets blinded off until you arrive (or removed if you don't show by the end of level 3). We don't penalize no-shows because it almost never happens.

Same problem was happening at my game.

Our Solution

You can buy in late to a tourney within the first two blind levels w/o penalty.

In addition, those that RSVP and show up on time get an extra T200.

Sarge

This is our method, for the most part. Our game isn't tight enough to give the two people to the right of the empty chair much of an advantage.

I will say that in one tournament it FELT like it was an advantage to come late. I kept getting big hands that were second best or I concluded were second best. When the late player arrived to a stack that had only been slightly chipped away (pun intended), I wished I had been late. Eventually put my short stack in preflop with AK suited to be called by KK. Flop was K93. Oh well, it was all going in anyway.

Our league has no late buy-ins, in fact we have preregistration. If you make a verbal commitment to be there we oput out a stack and blind you off for 2 levels (1 hour) once that hour is up your chips are gone unless you have called to reinforce your planned attendance.

If you make a monetary commitment by prepaying your buy-in, your stack stays on the table until you get there or are blinded out. If you call within the first 2 levels and say you will not be able to make it the stack is removed after 1 hour and money is refunded.

We generally let late-comers in before the first color-up.

Any call-ins get a stack blinded off.

If it's normal for you to have late-comers, set a dead stack at each table, and then assign people to them when they show. Pick up any un-claimed dead stacks at the break (or whatever).

We recently started an on-time bonus because our games were consistently starting 15-30 minutes late each week. It worked like a charm. There was a little grumbling from the latecomers who didn't get it the first week, but they weren't late again. Thanks to pfapfap for the idea.

That's pretty typical for me - I play much better if I'm not there.

FYP, you deck manipulating CHEATER! Oops, wrong thread...

A lot of people seem to like this bonus chip thing, so maybe I'll give it a shot.

The best way I feel is to have full tourneys. If someone is locked out or has to wait an hour to be an alternate, then the person will arrive sooner next time. I generally don't open up an additional table until I have four more RSVPs than I need for it. There are always flakes.

I'm still not sure how I feel about rewarding someone for doing what should be expected. Yay, you showed up when you were supposed to In order not to be an a-hole... Here's a cookie?

And besides, the tourney START time is not the same as the Shuffle Up And Deal time. I tell my players to arrive at 6:30 for a first round beginning at 7. By 6:50 we have most of the buyins done with time left for last minute problems.

It's similar to when I ran events in college. If you want a line around the block, you set "line forms at" and "doors open at" times. Just a start time? Where's the urgency or manufactured scarcity in that?

Another solution is not to wait! If your tourneys always start late, that's your own fault. You're training your players that you'll wait for them. Stop it.

FYP? If it happened (without cheating), it would be FMP!

The b&m i play at allows people to register late, but they also do ghost stacks, which are stacks for empty seats which get blinded down. I believe that the default is to sit someone who came late into a ghost stack seat. The ghost stacks are removed from play at the first break, which is 4 blind levels, and the last chance for someone to late register.

There have been instances when all the ghost stacks have been bought up, and then they had enough late entries on a waiting list to open an additional table. All the people who registered late and sat the newly opened table were given full stacks. This system seems unfair to the people who take the last ghost stack seat if they open a fresh table.

I have not seen the difference in stack size between a ghost stack, and a fresh stack be greater than 5%.

Some people do not like the ghost stack system as they feel it gives the people who sit to the right of a ghost stack an advantage at stealing blinds.

We let late arrivals buy in as long as re-buys are still available. Seems to make sense. Anyone see a problem with that?

Well, it does, if the table is passive and doesn't get the idea that there's free money right there. It can also act a little like an ante when everyone does know it's there and goes for it. Fun for all.

I rescind my earlier statement giving you credit for the idea. I can't remember who it was now, but I'm sure it came from HP.

Manufactured scarcity would not work for us. We get RSVPs and generally have 100% attendance. Last-minute cancellations are extremely uncommon, and no-shows never happen. In addition, we have a couple of players who drive a good distance to play, and they are typically on time but among the last to arrive. After the first time someone drove 45 minutes just to get locked out, that player would probably stop attending.

It's not really a reward; it's a penalty for those who are late. It's simply explained as a reward to minimize the grumbling. You get fewer arguments with "Bob gets a bonus for being on time" than with "You were late so you lose part of your stack."

The effect is the same, though.

We do basically the same thing. The problem was that people knew this and started showing up later. We continued to start on time and simply blinded out the extra seats, but it wasn't enough to fix the problem - the culprits simply didn't care about the 1.5% of their stack that they lost if they missed the first orbit, and eventually so many people were showing up late that it was impossible to start on time. At the scheduled seat draw time, we would have 2-3 players.

Since implementing the on-time bonus, we've had no more than 2-3 late arrivals each week.

It was LL who talked about it.

Sigh.

Fair point on bonus/penalty, so I guess I'm a nit on terminology. Interesting psychological ploy, maybe I haven't given it enough credit. I don't like penalizing reliable regulars who work late or travel far. Sometimes bridge traffic can be a problem, and I don't want to add to the stress. I'll try it for a weekend game.

I confess I've had my momentary over-stressed weaknesses and have snapped at people from time to time. Maybe it's fear that keeps them in line.

Grats on no flakes and no last minute cancellations. Maybe it's the pot-infused air of the Bay Area...

Why can't you play 3-handed? You'll get in a LOT of hands and steal a lot of blinds... I'd even balance the empty seats so that everybody present is on equal footing.

It might seem like they have an advantage when they buy in full and you've lost most of your stack already, but there's just as good a chance they could have doubled up if they'd bought in earlier. The only advantage is the possibility to see who's shortstacked. If it's good players you can buy in late and have an advantage, if it's bad players you can decide not to play. Are the players actually being selective like that or are they just showing up to do some gambling as soon as they can get off work?

PFAP has the answer. Start the tourney on time otherwise your training players its ok to be late. An 8PM start time means you start the clock at 8PM and you deal. Deal in the late players, posting there blinds of course.

My little weekly game started to run late , players still smoking outside and showing up late. I announced one week that the deal starts at 7:30 on the nose for the following week. The following week there was only two other players at the table, 2-3 were outside smoking and \i think one was late. I dealt everyone in posting there blinds. We didn't even annouce it to the guys having a smoke. Seldom have a problem now with late players.

^^ Tough love. I like it.

We typically play 2-3 tables, and the host would draw seats for latecomers. When so many are late, the constant interruption of players trickling in, paying the host and asking "where's my seat?" just made it ridiculous to even start before the majority of players were there.

I second that.

Tell them to take the BART.

We debated over "excused tardiness" but ultimately decided against it. In order to be effective, the bonus has to be a hard-and-fast rule. Otherwise, latecomers will provide excuses or try to angle their way into the bonus. Best case, you get extra arguing, and worst case, you take the teeth away from the late penalty by making exceptions.

Agreed. As long as everyone knows the starting time well in advance, they should plan accordingly. Especially if it's OK if they show up 30 minutes early. But even then, bring a book and read in the car.

But that said, we sometimes set the start time of the tournament based on when the last person can show. So I talk tough, but we're as easy as Sunday morning.

Yeesh, that's pretty harsh to have only 3 people show up on time for a 3 table tournament. I certainly know the difficulty in juggling the roles of TD and player. Maybe it's why my early game strategy sucks, because I'm never at my table.

But I guarantee the first time you put them each on their own table, and they double up through blinds alone, that others will show up on time after that.

Or you'll have a riot on your hands.

Hosting is a delicate balance. You have to be firm but fair. And sometimes you just need to whip people into shape.