Hello. I run a home game that regularly seats 9-18 players. We cap it at a max of 18. Every game we start late because we're never totally sure how many players are coming and we regularly have late arrivals.

What we'd like to do is get the cards in the air at a set time and blind off any late shows, but I don't know how to do the dead stack thing? We could end up with 9 players or get up to 18, so not sure how to place the dead stacks, how many dead stacks to put out or how to keep the seating and table balance fair and square. About all I know on this is that the dead stacks are dealt cards and the dead stacks are pulled off the table at the end of the cut-off level.

Any help much appreciated.

Someone in this forum calls game time as a half-hour before the game actually starts (say, 6:30) and then cards are in the air at the "real" time (say, 7:00). He said it seems to help with getting people on time.

As for blinding off their stacks, get the best estimate you can of how many people are coming, and make that many stacks. Set up the tables as necessary to accommodate that many players (including distributing the actual players evenly). Blind off the dead stacks until whatever cutoff point; 15 minutes later than anyone ever shows up would be good. After that, take them off the table(s).

And don't be afraid to stop inviting the worst habitual offenders.

Here's a couple options:

A)If start time 9 or less, start with one table. Once you reach 12 people, the three newcomers and three players from existing table (high card) start second table. New stacks are blinded off a predetermined amount (1.5 big blinds per level paid) and that money is splashed into pots.

B)Start with two tables. New stacks come in full but have to post to play. Draw for seats including the dead spots

C)Start with two tables, all players draw for seats, blind off dead stacks.

D)Start with two evenly spaced tables and space between all players. incoming players fill in the remaining seats via draw.

All have pros and cons...Personally I like B or C if its a more serious game, and D if its more casual and friendly. Nature of the game does always matter.

I had a very serious game and tried all options. Eventually I settled on D. Just balance the tables to start, give players stacks when they arrive, deal them in.

Dead stacks give some players advantages.

Splitting up a table after the tourney starts is just asking for trouble.

And the one time I did the "wait until the big blind to post" option, the two late players took first and second in a three-table tourney. Doesn't seem like much of a penalty.

9-18 is a rough spot, because it's hard to run two tables for 9 players, but you don't want to split it up later, either. I'd work on getting players there on time. Maybe your start time is too early? What about a half hour of Open Face Chinese for the early arrivals?

FWIW, the WSOP gives a fresh stack, and the player has an option: post immediately for a hand, or wait for the BB. At least, I think that's the current policy. I could be wrong, things change a lot over there. But a home game doesn't run the same risk of a player deliberately idling to miss the blinds.

Thank you all very much for the replies. It helped very much. I know i'll be able to implement something that works based on the great suggestions. I appreciate it.

-Pike

The biggest key I unlocked for getting players to my tournaments on time was awarding bonus chips to early arrivals. I award 10% extra chippies - in my case 2K in addition to the 20K starting stacks.

With this incentive it's no problem mostly filling all the tables before start time. Late players, and there are very few - come into the open seat closest to the big blind in whatever table is next in numerical order. We start with table 1 (first late player through the door goes there) then table 2, then table 3 if we have it - if not we start over and keep going in order.

Late players always get a full stack, just like 90% or more of all card rooms these days.

good idea manzoni. I will try that

We don't play tourneys at home , but when I did play at casinos they seemed to expect late comers and left seats open. There were no stacks just sitting there if I remember right They gave these folks full stacks and I think they could still enter by the end of 3rd or 4th level. Of course their "full stacks" were worth less in bb by then , so that was an incentive to be on time. IDK if this is a structure you would like to try or not, but it was what Hollywood and Belterra did if my brain is working right this morning. Good luck to you.

I have always gone with posting dead stacks, or giving out stacks minus 2bb per level. However, I now plan on using pfap's method of just giving out a full stack whenever the players shows, as it seems like the least amount of hassle for the host (me).

+1 to manzoni's "on-time" bonus, will be trying that next time I run a tourney.

The on-time bonus is a great idea, and would often be more of a penalty than blinding people off.

If you blind people off, and they are 2 orbits late, they have lost 3 BBs. With bonus chips, if they miss even one hand, they lose the entire bonus, which could be 10-20 BBs, depending on your structure.

So the on-time bonus is both a positive incentive, a greater incentive, and less hassle.

I can imagine you'll get more sob stories, though. People with good reasons for being a little late, and will feel unduly penalized.

Be very careful with this. I tried it for about a month.

First problem was when people started joking with each other about how dangerous their driving was on the way to the game. It was a point of pride on who could be crazier in order to get there on time. This is no joking matter. Your life is more valuable than bonus chips. I've witnessed fatal traffic accidents happen directly in front of me, and lost family members to the same. Nobody gets in his car thinking he's going to die, and yet it happens with alarming frequency. Safety first.

Next problem was people arguing about the cut-off time. What if I'm running up the driveway? What if I'm parking? What if I text you from the traffic light down the street? What if I was going to be on time, but I gave up my parking spot to someone else because I'm a nice guy, and c'mon I'm only two minutes late, and I've been here ever week, more than these other people, and this is total bullshot?

That last one was what got me to stop it entirely. I don't like being pressured to practice favoritism. It's a lose-lose situation overall. No matter what I do, somebody is going to be upset.

Show up, get your chips. Done and done.

If the majority of people aren't arriving on time, then either the start time is too early, or you've conditioned them that it's okay to wait. Have you traditionally postponed the start time while waiting? Well, cut that out. Tell them that signups are at 6:30 and that cards are in the air at 7:00 and be brutally consistent.

I rarely run tourneys for this reason. Cash games make it simple. If players want to play in a tourny then they need to show up on time.

Amen. (I still prefer for people to show up on time for my cash games, though.)

Good points as always pfap, but I've been on this system for 6 years and haven't had any issues - and I think being, as you say, brutally consistent, is the absolute key to maintaining order. Also it helps to have a player base that is like-minded.

I work in production in Los Angeles, as do many of my players - where if you are late at all you are pretty much fired and traffic is never an excuse. So I think most of the Angelenos who come to my game are conditioned to account for time they spend stuck in their cars.

Also, I grew up in Berkeley California, so I am very familiar with the propensity to avoid personal responsibility that some people have, as well as a general tendency to be wacky (like speeding in traffic for a 10% edge in a $40 home game tournament).

As a Berkeley ex-pat nothing gives me greater pleasure than to splash flaky and goofy narcissists in the face with cold reality. I simply don't put up with childish behavior - and as someone who grew up surrounded by it (even from teachers and other adult mentors) I can sniff it out rather quickly.

You could have an ontime bonus that doesn't effect play .....

It could be something as simple as priority invites to games if you find yourself limiting the number of players you can invite (Hey we have 30 players, we can accomdate 20 so the guys who show up on time will get first chance to be part of the 20, after they have there chance other invites will go out)

Or if you have a game you want to start at 7, invite people for 6:30 h have some pizzas or other dinner available till the game starts (then put it away) so the people who come when invited get a meal.

or put thumbtacks on all the seats that are empty at start time.

Or anyone arriving after start time must bring a 6-pack.

Last person to show must host next weeks game.

First thing, you have to state a starting time and stick with it. If your going to push it back, then you are only training players that it's ok to be late. Pick a time for cards in the air and go with it every week. Once players see that you start at a set time, you will have less late players.

I like the idea of a on time bonus. But there was a game I used to go to that you paid 10% of your chip stack for arriving late. It didn't matter how late.

Good luck

I do this variation on the bonus chip:

I have "doors open" time (don't show before), say 6pm. Then "bonus cut-off" 6:15 and cards/air 7pm (as an example).

My twist, which alleviates the pfap maniac driving issue, is this: if you are after bonus cut-off but before cards/air, you still get the bonus IF your arrival doesn't cause me grief.

We have 2 or 3 tables usually. No reservations, group members just show or don't. Rarely we have less than 2 tables. In any case, certain size transitions are a pain (which is what started this thread). When it's 6:15 I start making the seat assignments. If you walk in the door after that and your arrival isn't the cause of a 2-table to 3-table transition, you still get a bonus.

If you cause me grief (having to do a partial or complete redraw) because you came after cut-off, no bonus for you (or of course anyone after that, to be fair). Also (obviously) once cards/air no more bonus.

While this is arbitrary and requires some judgment on my part, it's been working really well and I've never had anyone argue about whether they deserved the bonus or not. "You were the one, sorry". Now there's a reason they aren't getting a bonus, it's not just on-time nittiness but a penalty for actually causing extra work. That fact squelches any pleas for mercy. "Yup, you're right, that sucks, but you are the reason I'm doing this redraw now and so no bonus for you".

Because there's a grace period that is "usually" still ok, people don't do stupid things when they are a few minutes late.

Conversely, I WILL give a bonus to someone who is late (has to still be before cards/air) but texts me with a "guarantee" that they will be there. So if they are at a light 2 minutes away at the bonus cut-off time and tell me so, well, my problem is solved: I know they are coming and I know how to include them in my count. So they get a bonus. The penalty for lying to me on this is being banned; which of course has never happened because everyone knows this.

All this meets my goal of helping me get the tournament set and going, and doesn't penalize anyone for being late when it really didn't matter anyway (e.g., if I have 23 people - three tables, and #24 walks in 2 minutes past bonus-chip time but before cards/air, he didn't really cause any grief and gets a full stack).

This works well for me. YMMV. It does require an ability to be fair with your players in a subjective situation (and their respect of your decisions).

+1. I had a similar experience with a chip bonus for on-time arrival. Players recognized it for what it really was (a penalty for being late), and a couple of players who had legitimate reasons for being late (working far away or later hours) felt unjustly penalized.

Now we just start promptly each week and blind off the dead stacks of those who are late. It works for us.

back to dead stacks for a moment: A lot of poker players really like ritual. For example, they'll invest an immense amout of attention in a chip race, which by definition is practically irrelevant.

Dead stacks seem to be a nice pacifier. As we diligently blind them off, everyone gets a warm feeling that everything is in order and the host is in control. A carefully-orchestrated seating plan does a similar thing.

If this is your crowd, set out 18 chairs and stacks and seat people randomly. At start time, if the tables are unbalanced, fix that. If there are <10 players, they all go to one table until #11 shows up. >10, New arrivals alternate tables to stay in balance.

It's a lot of extra work for the TD this way, but it also demonstrates expertise and reinforces authority at every step. People respond to that.

Yup. As host, I would be happy with the manageability of this. As a player, I would appreciate that things are being run in a way that is fair and straightforward for everyone.

This is a practice I need to work on

We have a 2 hr late reg in our tournaments. I've been doing the ole tell em it starts at 5 when really i'd like to start by 530.

Haha, yeah, we have some rules nits who would have a conniption fit if we didn't blind off the stacks.

Those rules nits better not ever play in the WSOP, then.

They probably would have a bad moment or two.