Looking for a little advice on a hand that happened the other night at a home game and I am not sure where to post it. It was a small .10/.25 6 man nl game. The hand I wanted some advice on went like this:

P1 in the SB raises it up a little over 3x preflop with KJ*(aggro reputation)
P2 in the BB flat calls with AK(tight player)

Flop:J79 rainbow
P1: makes a small c-bet
BB: Flat calls

Turn:4
P1:Checks
P2:Bets about 2/3
P1: Calls

River:6
P1:Checks
P2:Shoves
P1:Pretty much insta-calls and shows the KJ.

P1 said it was pretty standard line that he took that hand. Said he checked the turn and river to induce a bluff and that he is never folding to that shove on the river because its an easy call with KJ. He said KJ wins that pot about 80% of the time.

Any thoughts on the hand itself and then those comments after the hand?

So you're P2 and you're upset he didn't believe you were representing the straight?

Hand seems fairly standard. SB got lucky and hit, BB tried to steal and failed. That's poker.

As to the talk after the hand, that's also standard, although I like to avoid defending plays at the table. If I'm P1 and I'm challenged about it, I just say, "Hey, I got lucky, though I was good, but you get all my chips if you hit two pair or a straight there." Not sure where that "80%" number comes from, but people like to throw out numbers to look smart. If I'm P2 and I get busted, I don't challenge P1, I just say, "Ah, ya caught me, nice hand. Rebuy!"

ya I mean I played the hand terribly IMO but we play hands all the time against each other and he usually give me a lot of credit for hands. It was also a .10/.25 weekly home game we just play for fun. The hand didn't bother me that I lost but more or less the talk after the fact. Someone else at the table made a comment about it and that is when the "standard play,80%" lines were dropped and I don't agree that KJ wins that pot 80% of the time but I also dont claim to know a lot about the game.

Yeah, this is an easy conversation to get sucked into, but it's a bit of a dead end, because nobody's going to admit to playing a hand poorly. There's no way to "win" it. And you don't want to. It's only at the low stakes where people want to play against "good" players. The higher the stakes, the happier people are to play against poor players, and the less they challenge their thinking. (This is not a slam: I'm a low stakes player myself, but I'm a professional dealer, so I see all the stakes.)

Your role at the table is to agree with people. "Yeah, you're probably right, good call, you caught me trying to steal. Nice hand." Let them believe whatever they want.

Lose gracefully. Win even more gracefully.

definitely,thanks for the replies.

One of the things that make home poker different from brick and morter is the lenght of time you play the same people. P2 / BB must have a lot of information about P1 / SB and vice-versa. Things like who's a calling station, who slow plays, who can stack off on top pair, etc - you know all that stuff that determines how to play the hand. We aren't privy to those insights and can't offer much useful advice about the play-by-play except how we would play vs unknowns.

The question I pose for the original poster is, does P1 have a sick/solid read on P2 or does P1 stack off light with top pair? No doubt you'll be playing each other a lot in the future and should be able to make good use of this information if you can figure it out. If you don't have an answer, then pay close attention next game and see. Folks that go for broke on one pair should be easy to spot, if P1 isn't that type of player then you need to worry . . . .

Go get'em tiger -=- DrStrange

Damn, kitty pretty much nailed it.

/thread.

I think it may also be important to note that if P1 sees P2 as a tight player it may be hard for him to imagine P2 defending his blind with 8,5 or 10,8 to make the straight. He may also know that P2 would play a flopped or turned set differently and may like to float with overcards. I usually don't advocate stacking off with top pair and would almost never be instacalling but I can see how one can come to the decision that it is a good call.

On a side note, how much did you shove for? If it was under the size of the pot it makes it an easier call. Also, are you sometimes shoving for value in spots like that or only as a bluff? I remember when I first started playing poker in home games with friends it was a big joke among the group that when I called all-in I had it but when I pushed all-in that I was bluffing.

Best of luck at the table! This is sure making me want to be back at home playing with buddies.

It was a little more than the size of the pot like 4-5 dollars over. .I would say I have won about 70% of the hands that got to a showdown with this player. I am usually showing big hands there when I shove which is what I tried to exploit. I just took a really bad line that didn't make any sense with the cards out there.

Later in the night tho I did get caught bluffing at a Kh,9h,6h,9c,2h. The kid at the table who called who "just likes to gamble" said "you have to have me beat but I guess I call" and flipped over the 2h3h after flat calling the flop and turn. Then on the river I checked and he bet about 1/2 the pot then I put him all in. . there was about $30 in the pot after his bet and he had about $40 behind.

Then Mr. KJ is 80% said its not a bad call there because you have to play that 2h3h as if its the Qh and then you just have to decide whether you believe I have the Ah there or nothing. Another statement I am not too sure about. Needless to say I almost lost my **** at the table. I could be wrong tho I guess!?

any advice on how to be profitable at a low stakes home game against players like the two of them would be helpful too. .

This is weird, because up until you said this, I saw nothing in your post that made me even mildly annoyed.

Why does the poor poker thinking of your opponents upset you?

If these people call down with anything, then it's your mistake for trying to represent a hand and bluff. You said you get paid off with big hands. You get paid off because they call with questionable holdings. KJ here is a fairly strong hand considering, and if he's a calling station, then he's going to call you. Don't give away money like this when you get called down all the time when you hit.

Your anger may be more appropriately directed at yourself for trying to bluff a calling station, not at these people who are exactly the type of player you should enjoy having around you. Just something to consider.

Don't bluff into bad players that will call you down and Value bet more.

the way I play hands, specifically the hands I was talking about, definitely makes me angry at myself because knowing what I should be doing and then actually doing it in the moment seems to be difficult for me at this home game.

I was more mad at the comments made at the table about the hands because the kid who makes them plays more than anyone so when he says things like "KJ is 80% there and you play it like you have the Qh" everyone at the table thinks it has to be true which tilts me.

Why does it tilt you?

He's giving you insight as to his thinking, and better yet he's letting you know how he's guiding others to view you. This is PRIMO information. Maybe he earnestly believes what he says, maybe not. But if you think it's balderdash, you WANT everybody at the table to think it has to be true. Why would that tilt you?

Ask yourself, what is your goal when sitting at the table? Do these comments he's making work for or against your goal? Does getting tilted about them help? Why do they upset you?

Agreed. It sucks to get stacked, but in a low stakes cash game ANYONE WHO SHOVES CAN BEAT TOP PAIR. Best case they've got AA, but almost always two pair or better.

Welcome to the boards.

My comment is: in the future, don't put in their hands until later, after some replies come in. You want to present your hand, fine... but let's debate it based on ranges rather than XX and YY.

Secondly..... KJ has some assumptions in his 80% about the "villain". Are those assumptions correct?

And P2 isn't thinking about his river bets very carefully. Don't edjumacate him otherwise.

(now, if you're P2.... go back and look at your turn/river bets. You sure that they make sense, given the board and P1's tendencies?)