1) Initial observation: this post is way, way too long for people to follow. I'm long winded when I post, and even I think this was insanely long.

2) Your extremely long winded, rambling post includes absolutely and utterly zero evidence or anything indicative of cheating of any nature whatsover. You got called down light when you were on a move by someone who didn't want to see your hand, and lost with KK to AA. Nothing anywhere suggests you were cheated. You actually included "these guys know me as nitty" and "I'm UTG" as fishy pieces of this puzzle.

3) How the hell could the deck have been stacked against you here? How could they have known you'd 4-bet with what was apparently a garbage hand preflop?

You title the thread "Home Game Cheats", then open with your first sentence stating that you aren't accusing anyone of cheating, which is a clear and obvious contradiction. You then contradict yourself a second time by going ahead and doing just that, accusing people of having cheated you. you do this however without providing any evidence at all other than you having lost a couple hands.

This is why people are confused.

I don't know what's worse, OP's silly situation or the people in this forum who for some reason are falling for this post. It's typical of every single other "Did I get cheated" post, none of which were ever the OP getting cheated.

Anything else to say mate? lol

1.0) I want to give ALL the details to get accurate advice from the good people here.
1.1)Sorry if it was too long winded and boring for you.
1.2)Prob a million other threads you could read and reply too?



2.0) Long winded?
2.1)Are you skooling me on efficiency?
2.2)Are you German?
2.3)You just repeated the point of your first point in your second point making it extreemly long winded...
2.4)Just giving ALL the details of what happened to hopefully get the best advice from the mostly friendly folks here on the forum. While you dont see any evidence others here did and advised accordingly.



3.0) If i knew the answer to that i wouldnt need this thread...





Like i said the thread is about home games and cheating. What else should i call the thread?
People i know read this forum. I declaired that i wasnt accusing anyone because i have no proof. But what i saw looked to me like cheating but i'm no expert on the subject hence this thread.





Whats the silly situation? How often does anyone here reach for a pot without knowing your opponents hand? I never do...




=============================================


Anyway thanks for your intrest in the thread. I'm not sure what the goal of your post are? Honestly it looks a lot like troll type behaviour to me.

You can reply if you like but really i dont see any reason for you to. Just let the thread fade away. Sorry to waste your time.

It's not troll type behavior, it's pointing out that this is an absurd thread. You obviously weren't cheated, and you know it. You're looking for an excuse for the fact that you lost despite usually, in your own words, "walking away with fistfuls of cash".

sophisticated cheaters in this home game -

1. stack the deck
2. Give self K high, give villain J high
3. Arrange board for both of us to miss everything
4. ???????? (get J high to fire a dozen times at the pot)
5. Profit

I'm curious what the stakes are for this game. If they are small it could be that the dude just loves to gamble

you need more evidence than this if you are going to accuse people of cheating or even suggest it.....basically most of this seems circumstantial and unless you are prepared to not be invited to the game again and lose your friends then 'don't go there'.

yes, the K high hero call and insta reaching for the pot is strange but maybe he had a read or maybe he was being a douche and reaching for it in a smartarse kind of way expecting you to go 'wtf, thats my pot' but then realised he might actually be ahead.

..

IF they were cheating,and its a big IF, it does not include stacking the deck. What you are describing is someone who just knows exactly what 2 cards your holding. This could be done a number of ways, but the easiest is to be seated DIRECTLY TO THE RIGHT of the dealer. The dealer can very easily flash the cards to his right as he deals. The dealer may not even be in cahoots, just a bad dealer.
maybe he only sees both cards 1 out of every 10 deals or worse. who knows. I'd be curious to see if he sits in that seat every game. and also, I'd watch him everytime the dealing is done.
Odds are these are bad beat stories, but sitting to the right of a fulltime home game dealer is the perfect spot to see free cards.

Is the dealer/host playing, or is this a raked underground room? I assume the latter, given your midnight arrival time.

See pfap's reply for coverage on the dealer reaction (the correct one, btw).

You don't have enough here to make your case for irregularities. If the game is that juicy, why are you complaining?

It's easy to doubt your ability to analyze things, when you say "juicy game" and then this, in the same description:

maybe you define "juicy" based on the drinks served....

The thread is what it is. If its absurd who am i to judge. All i wanted to know was if i got cheated. These home cashies are new to me...



Its small bro, 1 2 but goes up the later we play.



This is handy info! I will be in seat 9 from now on lol.

I have seen him a couple of times in seat 9 and once in seat 1.

The host will sit out most of the night. This guy who also deals at the local casino will deal for most of the night collecting tips until he has enough for a buyin then when its late he will play.




Yeah its raked.

Its juicy to me lol. Played like 10 times now lost twice... goin good.





Thank you to everyone who took this thread seriously! To everyone else who thought the thread was just some BS, sorry to make it so longwinded and boring.

I have learned a few things!

1. Seat 9 is the place to be.
2. It is possible (in my mind probable) that this guy knew my cards. Maybe i wasnt cheated but i'm pretty sure he knew what i had.
3. Keep a close eye on seat 9 and everyone in the general direction as cards are being dealt.
4. Relax a little
5. Keep 2+2 threads short and to the point.

Thank you all

I don't know. I was suspicious at first but thinking about it you don't set up the "big score" by dealing a bluffing hand and hoping they bluff into your K high. Unless the cards are marked. That would be the only explanation for that hand involving cheating.

even that doesn't make sense. if you know the guy is bluffing because you've seen his cards, you a) don't tank about it before calling and b) don't call, you raise.

OP's story just doesn't add up. Simplest explanation is that there is a some bad play at this game, and probably some sloppy procedures, and that OP's description of King-high calling then scooping without waiting to see the hand is simply inaccurate or an incomplete telling. Like:
villain: [tank] "ok, I call",
[hero sighs, doesn't table hand]
villain "I have K-high" [tables K-high]
hero: [big sigh, checks cards, frowns. still doesn't table hand]
villain: [internally: "ha, thought so"] [drags pot]



still worth keeping an eye on procedures, educate yourself and suggest improvements gently. No harm in sitting to the right of the dealer to see what you can see from there. If nothing else, it should help ease your mind.

Disagree here- long posts can be skipped over by lazy people; quantity (as long as it's not total garbage) should not be discouraged.

The rest of your replies.... I pretty much agree.

2Outs has a certain style, that can come across in a trollish manner, but generally he's not aiming for that reaction.

He doesn't hesitate to say what he thinks, usually in a cutting way, and doesn't really care how it comes across (which is good, in some ways... but usually comes across badly). You'll have to get used to it, if you hang around here....
and, actually, he was somewhat in check so far.

the average joe schmoe is not going to memorize 8 combinations of two cards within the seconds it takes to deal out. (1)also, if the dealer is flashing every card to seat 9 it will be pretty damn obvious to the whole table.(2) who cares if you stacked the dealer the other night? is he one to hold to whole this giant grudge against you and risk his integrity in his own home because you stacked him one night?(3)KK vs AA happens, the fact that you were trapping with KK makes no difference. you must have felt a bigger weight because you underrepped and got smashed(4)

Now, the hand where he calls with K high is obviously fishy. But you don't give nearly enough info. If the board played out like QJ10, and you raise the flop, he puts you on a queen, the turn peels a 10, and you bet big, he knows youre not boated, the river is a J and you reraies his bluff for 2 bb more, its not a giant hero call. Your only job here was to report that hand exactly the way it was played from stack sizes, position, flop, turn, etc. Theres alot of times when calling k high can have +ev, vs small pairs in double pair boards etc
If the cards were marked, I am certain the "cheater" would not be so stupid as to act indifferent to calling with that. IOW, if i bluff catch with k high and win, i am not going to say a word like "HAHA got you good rookie ****" no.

From OP: "I lean forward to see past the dealer and before i can declair that i have air he has flipped over his king high and is reaching for the pot. WTF he called my all in but isnt interested in seeing what my cards were in this huge pot???"

If its not a stacked deck, this screams "marked cards" to me. Did he have some nifty red-lens glasses on?

just had a marked card situation in a lower stakes tournament...real sad

Sadly, it's not that surprising.