1) How does one find competent dealers to deal their home game?
2) Are tips as compensation enough by themselves or should I be paying the dealers something extra?
3) Is it legal to hire dealers in New York City?
4) Should I have two dealers to rotate in and out?

I wanted to know where do you find dealers to deal your home game? I live in New York City and getting my own game off the ground is something I have had in the works for quite a while now. I would love to do it. But if I wanted to hire dealers how would I go about doing that?

Is a self-dealt rotation a better idea? The only forseeable problem with this is that not everybody knows how to deal and I would hate for people to come into the game and be terrible at it. That may cause problems.

Another question I have is whether that is legal to hire a dealer to do this or is it not in New York City? I know in some locales that is illegal but I have heard that it is not illegal to hire a dealer in New York City (a rake or time taken would be). Any lawyers from New York City care to chime in? Currently I live in Queens but may move back to Brooklyn.

Hire a dealer to come and train two or three poker enthusiasts who can't afford or don't want to play in your game.
I made the investment and now I have a guy who picks up the food for the game, packs the fridge, deals and tidies up and takes out the garbage at the end.
I don't pay him but the tips are more than enough. Any students, girlfriends around who might be interested?

What stakes? I'm not sure tips would be worth it for anything under 1/2. Or, worse yet, too much money would come off the table and the game would dry up. I perma-dealt a while at a new-ish 1/1 home game recently, and the players even offered to tip for me to do it full-time, but I knew it would just take way too much out of play. Besides, I don't like to crap where I eat, and I want to keep playing in the game.

Most dealer downs in casinos are 30 or 40 minutes, with most dealing 2 or 3 tables between breaks, to give you an idea of scheduling. After about two hours, anybody would need to take five.

Here's a thread on dealing home games.

And hey, if you want someone to come out and help whip some folks into shape, I'm getting better at training. Will work for food and tips.

Why do I suspect that this "home game" that you're starting up, has more important legal concerns than hiring dealers? Or, am I assuming too much (given your later comment) and you won't be raking this game in order to pay for them?

And I think this thread is pretty specific- it should have been titled ".. in NYC"

I've just engaged in open dialogs with the dealers that I've hired:

"How much do you want to make?"

...and then I've guaranteed them a tip floor for the game. I let my players tip them, and then at the end of the night I pay them our flat fee (regardless) and then possibly what the players didn't tip them up to our agreed upon floor. If they make more than the tip floor, he'll still get his flat fee from me, but nothing extra (beyond what I tipped).

Sites like this one or homepokergames. Or, ask around, other live players you know surely have at least a couple of contacts as far as dealers.

Depends what stake of game you're hosting. Depends what type of money the person needs to make. As a general answer, no, no salary or extra money is generally given. Only way this would generally occur is if you made a prior agreement for payment in case your dealer gets you players.

Odd question, but answer I guess is no. You wouldn't be hiring them to begin with, since it's not a "real" job, and the game if raked isn't legal so thus their work can't be legal. If unraked, dealing for tips is still technically illegal, but a gray area which you won't be getting in trouble for.

Game lasting 7 or more hours? You'd probably have to. Otherwise, this could become a problem. If you have a 1/2 NL game that goes for 5 hours, having two dealers is going to mean splitting tips at a rate which will make some people unhappy.

Absolutely awful idea. Don't do this. For starters, it becomes difficult to deal effectively for anyone from the 2, 3, 8, or 9 seats because of the position you are in relation to everyone else. Also, plenty of people suck at it, and you have multiple people attempting to handle the pot, etc. It slows things down a ton.

People live up or down to your expectations.

If you don't feel dealers would make sense, and haven't yet purchased the tables, get round or octagonal. Demonstrate and encourage your players to use good dealing technique.

Trust me, they can be taught. It takes a while, but once you reach critical mass, it's easy to maintain. It's a trained monkey job, for cryin' out loud.

If OP's home game is raked, which, let's be honest, it probably is, I can't possibly see self-dealing being a viable option. Even if it's not raked, people playing 1/2 NL should have a dealer, self dealing is chaotic.

I would be interested in what pfapfap does for a living. I guess all work can be classified as trained monkey jobs.

Dealers keep the speed of the game high and reduce player cheating. If you can train your players to deal by all means do it. But i have encountered people who just cant be taught.

There are plenty of jobs in the workforce that are "trained monkey" jobs. It doesn't mean the people performing those jobs are stupid, it just means the jobs don't require a high degree of mental acuity. Like it or not, dealing poker is not a terribly difficult job. I can also think of a few people that will never make good dealers. Any competent poker player can easily be a dealer though. Playing is MUCH harder than dealing.

Poker dealer. Tho' it's part-time these days.

I do appreciate the subtle nuances of it, and the special skills that separate a competent dealer from a great dealer.

Agreed, but it's not impossible to teach most of them. I ran for three years a 2- and 3- table home game where most of the players eventually reached a level of basic competence, and several became quite good. Once you get most of 'em doing it right, it really becomes a peer pressure sort of thing. Since most can deal well, everybody else wants to at least look semi-competent. Hiring dealers is not always practical, but that's no reason the host needs to take on the burden of perma-dealer. The unwashed masses CAN be trained. I've done it.

Interesting,,, this is something i have just done i recruited two dealers to work my home game. both are in collage i trained them both. they make about $15-$20 an hour in tips. We play 1-2 no limit with about 18 regular players. we take a break every hour (for the smokers)

I have to say i love haven them here.

If you are going to train someone to deal have them read and test them on pfapfap's post about Proper Dealing Procedure. then train your players to tip (that might be harder then training the dealers)

I play in a number of different local games in addition to my 'true' home game with my buddies. I play in most games for profit, but the THG (true home game) is for fun and involves lots of booze, bananas, wild cards and stupid games at low stakes ($1/2 mostly, though it plays a little higher). The downside is that the game can grind down to a near halt as levels of intoxication rise and dealing becomes more difficult.

One of the other games I play in is a monthly NLHE tournament with continuous cash games on the side, all tables staffed by dealers. Some are very good, ex-casino dealers, and some are meh or downright tilting. I've approached the best dealer at that game and talked to him about having him come in and deal at the THG. I proposed a $1 mandatory tip per hand (just avoiding the word rake) in addition to any tips he might receive per hand. Since he would probably receive $1-2 in additional tips/hand, we calculated he'd make roughly $60/hr if he could deal 25 hands/hr.

He's very good at keeping the action moving and accustomed to dealing with drunks. We haven't actually had a game yet, but we're looking forward to having him there. The caveat, of course, is that we're prepared to be nearly unable to beat the rake (tips) because the THG is our fun time and not a profit opportunity. Your players might want to do some calculations to determine if an arrangement like this will be +EV for them over the long term. For most, taking $300-400 off a table with only 2k on it for rake/tips without an influx of new money will be -EV. But if you're playing higher than $1/2 or you're playing for enjoyment, it would be a great investment IMO.

This is one of my favorite phrases in all of poker. I've never heard anybody say "but it plays exactly at that level." No matter the stakes, "it plays a little higher" (or bigger).

Wonder what this means... maybe all these games really play exactly where they should?

...maybe they mean higher in relation to the average size of the same online stake? I doubt it though. Maybe in relation to how they think it should play? Like no overbets and 6 players to every flop?

I seriously doubt any 1/2 live player who talks about it "playing bigger" is playing 200NL online.

Everyone thinks their game "plays bigger."

Heck, I think my $0.25 single-blind PLO game "plays bigger" - but who knows.

I said the THG plays bigger because most of us play at higher stakes when not fooling around and getting intoxicated. Though this game is just for fun, it's hard for any of us to take $6 preflop raises seriously. Standard pfr is $15+. Average pots are generally larger than most live $1/2 games. Does the terminology feel correct given context or would you like to ridicule me some more?

Heh, no, I know exactly what you mean. I just don't know any 1/2 game where $6 is a standard PFR, especially not in casinos. $10-$18 seems about right. This whole "3x is standard" thing is a myth, more appropriate to tournaments. Sorry you were a prop for a little pet issue of mine.

Heck, my usual small stakes game has a standard opening of about 8-12x. I'll sometimes do a low 7x raise as a blocking bet.

I absolutely love this post. Nothing more true has been written on this forum in ages. Every single person everywhere describes a place as "this crazy action club I've been to which is 1/2 but plays like a 2/5". Nobody ever randomly goes off a tangent pitching a game as being tight or with small pots and standard preflop raises.

LOL. We understand why you said it. That's the exact point we're making, that everyone in every live game in America describes their game as being "the one" with the loose crazy action and the big preflop raise sizes.

+1

I associate with a lot of people who run underground clubs here in Toronto and it's always the same story. Show me the tight 3xBB raising 1/2 game with no action that helps define your game as so crazy. It always seems to be 1/2 games as well. I never hear of a 5/10 game that plays much bigger, it's like a 10/20 game.

agreed. I won't play at self-dealt games. I don't mind tipping in exchange for doubling the hands/hour.

I'm a little surprised y'all have so many games with dealers. Every game I've ever seen around here is self-dealt, tho' to be fair I haven't played above 1/2. And we tend to play on old-school tables (ie, a regular polygon or circle).

Anyone in the Bay Area with high stakes games looking for dealers, I'm happy to help!

Actually the only problem I have, other than getting the game started, is hiring the dealers and the legality of that. Where do I find them? Is it legal for me to use them? That was the point of this thread. This game will not be raked as I can play in clubs if I want too. I rigorously intend to keep the game legal and a legit home game. I just don't know how I find dealers and what would be considered fair compensation. IE, do I need to pay them on top of their tips or what?

I want to avoid self-dealing because let's face it. That creates a lot of bad situations with people who can't deal and the game can become very frustrating and I want the game to run smoothly. But like I said I don't rake the pot. This is a home game. Not a club. I have no real legal concerns other than hiring the dealers.

To be honest with you no, this game will not be raked. I am not interested in running a club and I want to avoid any and all legal entanglements and obey the law no matter what. I want to have a legit home game not an illegal gambling operation.