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Old 10-16-2012, 05:11 PM   #1
eneely
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Getting needled when you lose

We joke around at my game, but I don't think I ever needle anyone when they lose a hand. Yet, at some point during every game it seems I get needled when I lose one.

Someone might say, "maybe he only wins because he gets lucky" when I don't hit my huge draw.

I even had a good friend say, "I'm glad I wasn't in that hand" when I lost a big pot, with top two against a small full house. I don't know why he would say this, but I didn't say anything.

What I wish I had said was, "Yeah, that was the first thing I thought when I saw his boat. Damn, I'm glad you weren't in the hand."

I don't reply, but it does tend to tilt me and effect my game. Maybe some players do it for that very reason. But I do not suspect my friend of that.

Any advice here is appreciated.
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:18 PM   #2
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

Play lower stakes? You said you don't think it's implied tilt odds, so they're either jerks or aren't doing it with intent to be mean. Judging by the 2 examples you gave, I strongly believe it's the latter. It bites that it upsets you, but honestly, I can't think of a way to bring it up that doesn't make you look whiny. If it's worth it to you, though, tell them to knock it off. Repeat offenders get a KITN.
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:00 PM   #3
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

I don't like to try to put people on tilt by needling them, but when I spot someone on tilt I certainly try to exploit them ( in a subtle manner) ,so I guess you should try to hide it from most of the other players to minimize the negative effects.
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:22 PM   #4
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

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Originally Posted by eneely View Post
I even had a good friend say, "I'm glad I wasn't in that hand" when I lost a big pot, with top two against a small full house. I don't know why he would say this, but I didn't say anything.
Don't take things personally. This is great example. What your friend probably means is "I'm glad I wasn't in that hand, because I would have lost." People are AMAZINGLY self centered. It's only our own self-centeredness that makes us think other people think about us much.

Needling is just words. Pay attention to sticks & stones, and let the words slide.

I'm a big opponent of trash talk and verbal disrespect in general, but my advice to the target is to ignore it. Don't even hear it. If it doesn't bother you, no harm is done.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:06 PM   #5
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

Good advice here. I need to be more thick-skinned and not let these comments get to me. Some may be saying them with ill intent. My friend is probably clueless, though he has a PhD in psychology.

I know I am extremely competitive. I really hate to be wrong and really hate to lose. That is a good thing to an extent, but not to the point that it hurts my performance or long-term enjoyment of poker.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:46 PM   #6
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My gut is that you are a winning player so some of the opponents you are beating get some pleasure out of watching you lose a pot. Assuming this is the case, I think you have to just shrug it off and go on--or view it as a backhanded compliment.

It is hard to do and I suck at it especially when you/I take a bad beat and get felted.

GL & run goot
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:33 AM   #7
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

If they are clever, they might be trying to put you on tilt.

Or they might just be guys harassing you because for some odd reason, it is part of how guys treat each other. (For example, the barbershop scenes in Gran Torino. Great movie.)

Or they might just be talking and not thinking about how you'd feel about it. (I've said, "glad I wasn't in that hand," on a number of occasions and always meant it at face value: that my hand would have been crushed, but I would have thought it was good.)

No matter how they mean it though the best answer is to just ignore it...
and keep taking their money.

A few things that work for me.

1. Ask myself if I care what this person thinks. Usually the answer is no, especially at the poker table. In the home game I frequent, several of the players will mock anyone who has studied the game. The phrase, "what does the book say about that?" comes up fairly often.The truth is, I want them to think that way. I don't want them to read a book. If they want to be idiots, that improves my bottom line.

2. Ask myself if they are right. If some moron calls my play bad, then there are two main options: it is or it isn't. If I made the right play, why would I care what they think? Heck, it is to my advantage if they think I was wrong when I was right. Or my play really was bad, in which case I shouldn't worry about who said it, or how they said it, I should just fix it.

3. Remind myself of all the ways I am doing better than whoever is trying to get to me. On the table or off, it doesn't matter. I don't think I know anyone I'm not outperforming in some area of life, even if they have me crushed in others.
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Old 10-17-2012, 08:31 AM   #8
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

I don t like needling that goes on in the game as another thread I started indicated. The comments you mentioned I find are not bad really, atleast compared to what I hear at times. I am getting a player that needles me when its my turn to act and he is not even in the hand. That I do not like.

I actually like it when someone says I only win because I get lucky. Let them think that, I certainly prefer hearing it. The comment about the boat isn t so bad. Let the other players see you lose once in a while. I would of joking said, yea, I wish I wasn t in the hand either.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:20 AM   #9
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

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Originally Posted by ChickenNuts View Post
My gut is that you are a winning player so some of the opponents you are beating get some pleasure out of watching you lose a pot. Assuming this is the case, I think you have to just shrug it off and go on--or view it as a backhanded compliment.

It is hard to do and I suck at it especially when you/I take a bad beat and get felted.

GL & run goot
I think you are right. Thanks.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:23 AM   #10
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

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I don t like needling that goes on in the game as another thread I started indicated. The comments you mentioned I find are not bad really, atleast compared to what I hear at times. I am getting a player that needles me when its my turn to act and he is not even in the hand. That I do not like.

I actually like it when someone says I only win because I get lucky. Let them think that, I certainly prefer hearing it. The comment about the boat isn t so bad. Let the other players see you lose once in a while. I would of joking said, yea, I wish I wasn t in the hand either.
I agree that they are not that bad, but seem really out of line to me because I've just lost a hand. That seems like an excellent time to be tactful, imo. It is adding insult to injury.

People say all sorts of things during a hand, or just giving someone grief in general when not in a hand. That may or may not be cool, but it is not rubbing your face in anything.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:13 AM   #11
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

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Originally Posted by eneely View Post
I agree that they are not that bad, but seem really out of line to me because I've just lost a hand. That seems like an excellent time to be tactful, imo. It is adding insult to injury.

People say all sorts of things during a hand, or just giving someone grief in general when not in a hand. That may or may not be cool, but it is not rubbing your face in anything.
They are out of place and I do agree its time to be tactful. I don t agree with needling that goes on at the game, as I had a thread going over other types of needling.

Myself, when someone loses a big pot, I never say anything. let the guy lsoe in peace.
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:04 PM   #12
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

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Originally Posted by Doug_Underhill View Post
If they are clever, they might be trying to put you on tilt.

Or they might just be guys harassing you because for some odd reason, it is part of how guys treat each other. (For example, the barbershop scenes in Gran Torino. Great movie.)

Or they might just be talking and not thinking about how you'd feel about it. (I've said, "glad I wasn't in that hand," on a number of occasions and always meant it at face value: that my hand would have been crushed, but I would have thought it was good.)

No matter how they mean it though the best answer is to just ignore it...
and keep taking their money.

A few things that work for me.

1. Ask myself if I care what this person thinks. Usually the answer is no, especially at the poker table. In the home game I frequent, several of the players will mock anyone who has studied the game. The phrase, "what does the book say about that?" comes up fairly often.The truth is, I want them to think that way. I don't want them to read a book. If they want to be idiots, that improves my bottom line.

2. Ask myself if they are right. If some moron calls my play bad, then there are two main options: it is or it isn't. If I made the right play, why would I care what they think? Heck, it is to my advantage if they think I was wrong when I was right. Or my play really was bad, in which case I shouldn't worry about who said it, or how they said it, I should just fix it.

3. Remind myself of all the ways I am doing better than whoever is trying to get to me. On the table or off, it doesn't matter. I don't think I know anyone I'm not outperforming in some area of life, even if they have me crushed in others.
I like your list. I will try to keep this in mind.

As for 2, I don't which bothers me worse, a needle when I get unlucky, or a needle when I step in a big one. Probably the latter.
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:32 PM   #13
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

If you're tilting, you need to do one of these things.

1) do something that relieves the pressure. For some people (such as myself) it's firing back with better and more sarcastic replies. Since I'm in the top 2 at any table I choose to play in, it's very easy for me to redirect any theory criticisms if I want to (I rarely do that because I don't want to embarrass or educate anyone into playing better.) I'm also kinda funny when I wanna be, so at least I can feel better when others appreciate my humor.

2) correct the problem with yourself. If it's self esteem, work on it. If it's poker knowledge, work on it. It's virtually impossible for someone who knows less than you about something to make you feel bad about it. What are you really good at? Imagine someone who's much less good at it than you criticize you at it. Do you really think it would bother Tiger Woods if I made fun of him for missing the fairway?
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:35 PM   #14
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

One other tidbit that might or might not apply in your situation. I play on a soccer team, and play with pretty good players. When one of them makes a mistake, I often needle them. In this case, it's my personal way of saying "I know you're better than that, or else I wouldn't give you a hard time." In other words, it's a compliment. It also says "you're a good enough friend that I think I can do this with."

The weaker players on the team, I would never needle. It would be rude and counterproductive. It might even be sometimes with the good players.
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Old 10-17-2012, 01:55 PM   #15
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

Like others, I rarely needle, and never a player who has just lost a hand. The friendly trash talk that does occur in my group tends to be very general - you're short, you're stupid, you're a terrible poker player, etc. I don't needle a player for how they played a specific hand, and I rarely see it from those in my poker circles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eneely View Post
Someone might say, "maybe he only wins because he gets lucky" when I don't hit my huge draw.
I like it when a player says this type of thing about me. DUCY?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eneely View Post
I don't reply, but it does tend to tilt me and effect my game. Maybe some players do it for that very reason. But I do not suspect my friend of that.

Any advice here is appreciated.
Like others have said, you can either ignore it or find some way to defuse it before it tilts you.

When I get needled after losing a hand, I often smile and agree with the needler. "Yeah, you're right, I couldn't have played that hand much worse, eh?" If he's trying to get a rise out of me, it gives him the opposite reaction. And if if I really did play the hand badly, it helps me acknowledge it to myself and move on.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:39 AM   #16
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

edit- nice work, LL- you suck at grunching, you repetitive moran
Quote:
Originally Posted by eneely View Post
Yet, at some point during every game it seems I get needled when I lose one.
Are you one of the better players? Are you winning most of the time? Could it be a tinge of jealousy?

if not.... any risks here that you're somehow alienating players, and don't realize it? This is hard to read, with no knowledge.

Quote:
I even had a good friend say, "I'm glad I wasn't in that hand" when I lost a big pot, with top two against a small full house. I don't know why he would say this, but I didn't say anything.
When I say that, it's typically because I had a hand that would have been trapped for losing a lot of bets. I don't know that I'd assume it was directed against you, but you know your players and I don't.

Quote:
I don't reply, but it does tend to tilt me and affect my game.
"Maybe if you understood English, you'd play better!"

poised with chips, waiting for steamraise from eneely..
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Old 10-21-2012, 04:12 PM   #17
eneely
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

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Are you one of the better players? Are you winning most of the time? Could it be a tinge of jealousy?
I do OK. Some of those who needle are also good players. Probably they enjoyed my loss, or wanted me to sustain more of them.

Quote:
if not.... any risks here that you're somehow alienating players, and don't realize it? This is hard to read, with no knowledge.
Good question. I am an opinionated mofo, and don't always filter. That is why I included the statement that I never needle the loser. But I may be ticking people off with other comments. I may needle a winner, for example, if he sucks out. This could play into it, if people don't see or appreciate the difference.

Quote:
When I say that, it's typically because I had a hand that would have been trapped for losing a lot of bets. I don't know that I'd assume it was directed against you, but you know your players and I don't.
This could be the case. I should have said, "Did you have something there?" I need to lighten up, basically.

Quote:
"Maybe if you understood English, you'd play better!"

poised with chips, waiting for steamraise from eneely..
It is a good suggestion, but I disagree that it would help my poker.
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Old 10-27-2012, 10:55 AM   #18
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

I'm chiming in late, but thinking about the meaning behind the meaning might help turn some of these comments around as flattery. If they're saying things like, "Geez, were you even paying attention? How could you make such a terrible call," then it's a different issue. The fact that they're postulating that you "only win when you get lucky," sounds to me like you win often enough for them to joke about usually being incredibly lucky. What they're doing is turning your bad luck (i.e., what many poker players view as the only reason they ever lose a hand) into an explanation of why you lost. This line of thinking is not not logical in the least, but a large portion of recreational poker players are wonderfully illogical.

I'd also agree with others that your friend probably simply meant that he would have lost big had he been in the hand. Not necessarily that he was glad you lost - just glad that he didn't get sucked into it as well.

Above all, do your best to let any comments slide. Taking it personally can get you off your game. Understand that you want other players to think you're incredibly lucky (way better than them avoiding you because they think you're one of the top players at the table). If they're trying to tilt you, then throw them off their games by seeing to it that you aren't tilted by their comments. People like to get what they want. If they can't tilt you, they might try harder to beat you. If they gun for you, they likely will be playing at a level that you can exploit.
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Old 10-27-2012, 01:22 PM   #19
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

It's part of the game.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:38 AM   #20
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

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Originally Posted by gedanken View Post
Don't take things personally. This is great example. What your friend probably means is "I'm glad I wasn't in that hand, because I would have lost." People are AMAZINGLY self centered. It's only our own self-centeredness that makes us think other people think about us much.
there are good chances that they are just doing that... not everybody can be sensitive or able to use empathy... sometime all they have in mind is themselves... and they forget to keep their mouth shut...

we are fragile little monkeys
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:45 PM   #21
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

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Originally Posted by pigmalion View Post
there are good chances that they are just doing that... not everybody can be sensitive or able to use empathy... sometime all they have in mind is themselves... and they forget to keep their mouth shut...

we are fragile little monkeys
This could be me letting off some nervous energy without really thinking.
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:13 AM   #22
DavidNB
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

How would yoiu guys take needling when your in the middle of a hand from a player that has folded?

Part of the game?
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:25 PM   #23
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Part of the game
If they don't get under my skin, it gets under theirs.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:16 PM   #24
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidNB View Post
How would yoiu guys take needling when your in the middle of a hand from a player that has folded?

Part of the game?
Depends on what they're saying.
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Old 11-01-2012, 06:49 AM   #25
DavidNB
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Re: Getting needled when you lose

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Depends on what they're saying.
One guy would at times start saying, don t fold now come on don t fold and so on. It would only happen when I pause to think when facing a large bet.

I showed reaction to this crap before so Its proably the only reason the guy does it. I discussed this in another thread and I guess the general opinion was to learn not to show reaction to this crap.
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