We have mad skillz- comes with thousands of posts. You may now bow in awe...

.... nope, letting that one go this time.



I'd love to hear villain's justification as to why he cheated and why he should be forgiven/allowed to stay.

I'm lazy so we have 6 different deck colors for our 2-3 table games, so as long as the decks's counting 52, no need to spade
Unless I'm missing something?

Think about that for a second.

OP, here's my $0.02.

I'm generally a forgiving host, but I have a zero-tolerance policy for cheating. If someone is ever caught cheating in one of my games, they will immediately be asked to leave and will not be invited back. If I'm playing in someone else's game and a cheater is caught, I expect the same to happen or I will not be returning.

As has been said already, cheaters look at the game differently. This will not change, and there is no point in giving them a second chance to cheat you again.

OK LL, I've thought about it. Every deck is a different color and I always throw away old decks so no new deck w/ the same color are ever introduced.
Sure I'll spade 'em once every several games, but I've never had anyone bringing in "outside cards". Never hurts to take every precaution though, so point taken

Since you've never seen this, I should warn you that it will probably be less clear-cut than you expect.

For one thing, you'll probably have to decide what to do before you have all the facts. Of course the possible cheater will be someone's friend, maybe even your own...

For me, as a host, it's more about avoiding the appearance of impropriety. I have ten different decks of ten different colors, but I have ordered replacement cards. I spade the decks after every game, and while doing so I look for creases or marks. At the beginning of every game I spread the decks. I have a lot of people from many different social circles, and this way there's no question. They know I'm vigilant with the decks, and they know if there's a problem that it likely occurred that night.

In this situation, OP and another player saw the cheating, and the cheater admitted to it, so there's no doubt. But this case seems to be the exception and not the rule.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not going to kick someone from my game based on nothing more than an accusation or one fishy-looking hand. If I am sure beyond a reasonable doubt, the cheater is gone. If not (the more likely scenario), I'll just have to make a decision based on what I know. If the accusation has any merit whatsoever, I'm probably going to err on the side of "no appearance of impropriety" and send the suspected cheater home for the night, then figure out what to do from there.

Honestly, I hope I never have to deal with this type of problem, because it's always a lose-lose situation.

That would make it even worse, if in fact cheating was going on. Most of my games are for relatively insignificant stakes, so there's no real motivation to cheat other than the thrill of doing it. I don't think I want to be friends with someone who will cheat me just for the fun of cheating.

But that's not your point. I understand that I might have to decide between believing an accusation of cheating and banning a friend from my games, or not believing the accusation and having players quit. Again, see my "lose-lose" comment above.

For many people, that makes it seem less "wrong" because it's just for fun.

But yes, it's usually very hard to know for certain. If I know for certain, the person is gone, and that's the end of it.

I've had to kick three players out of my game. One was just an a-hole who liked to undermine me for the fun of it, so that was easy. Another was a really fun guy who frequently donated quite a bit, but also always seemed to be involved whenever there was a problem, and saw nothing wrong with angle-shooting (hiding cards, being ambiguous with actions, etc). I also suspected he was marking cards, but could never prove it. He also liked to argue and challenge for the fun of it, always sort of joking, but still a distraction, and high-maintenance. I finally decided he just wasn't good for the game, and other players agreed with me once he was gone.

The third was more recently. We had a rash of dented cards, and one player finally just admitted that some were "probably" him. Unfortunately I've known this guy a long time, and play in other games with him, so it was hard to do, but he actually took it well, tho' he does whine sometimes about wanting to come back in. I can be a bit wishy-washy and a people-pleaser, but I've had to hold my ground on this, and he's respected it. It makes it easier that he's done some other things to disrespect the game, and he can't really afford to play in it anyway.

I think I should have mentioned a couple of things.

Although I was extremely upset and wanted to the end the entire game there and then. Everybody insisted we carry on playing and we did finish our game. This isn't like it's MY game we just play the same group of people at 3-4 locations.

I'd find it incredibly hard to invite everyone BUT him as I'll be making a statement and I may even push myself out of the group. As I really don't hold grudges and as upset as I was I do not feel the need to punish him though I do feel he doesn't deserve my generosity of kindness (though I am probably an idiot for telling him to take the money back).

Also, the night after the incident, they all played at another friends house (same group) and everybody played, including the cheater. I was not in the right frame of mind to play with that group and even considered simply never playing again.

Ah, I misunderstood your previous post, thinking it was your friends saying they wouldn't play if this guy continued. I thought they were part of the poker group.

This person tried to swindle you. That is a perfectly justifiable reason not to invite him into to your home. But if the rest of the players want to continue with an admitted cheater in the game, it might be best to find another poker group.

What do the other players in the game have to say about this? Why are they not concerned about cheating? And have you bought a cut card yet?

You don't want to make a big scene about it, because then they'll just kick you out, as that's the easiest path. One thing you can do is make sure the games hosted at your house are the best games of any in the group. Have some good things to drink, a nice food spread, good music, comfortable chairs, etc. They'll want to play there. And this other guy isn't invited.

It's tough being a host, and you have to make some hard decisions. But you are 100% justified in not wanting to play with him. You're not punishing him, you're laying out the consequences of his actions. He cannot be trusted. He did this, not you.

DING! DING! DING!

He pulls it out in the ninth inning! Whadda save!

".... and my EV suffers because I'm always having to pay attention to him and the cards that he might be marking."

Right?

Thankfully, I'm not too concerned about him in the other game, due to a variety of factors. It's a drunken spewfest anyway, so I only play a few hands a night. It's more frustrating that I can't pimp my game there TOO much, because it just makes for an awkward, "Everybody should come to my house... except you!"

How do you address when someone shows up with their own Deck? It was a brand new set of Copag's, but it made for a real awkward opening to the night.

Your house, you're entitled to invite whoever you please. I normally do the inviting over text messaging, so I just exclude the whiner's.

I like to avoid the appearance of impropriety, so I'm not going to show up with cards to a new game. Mmmaybe if they're unopened, but still not likely. What happens when I get the winning end of a huge pot? Everybody's suspicious, that's what.

I have a dozen decks of cards at my house, so I never have to worry about someone showing up with a mystery deck. I also check the cards for marks after every game.

How often do you count? Is it rude or are you just being careful/effecient?

I count each deck a few times a night, if I remember to. It's not rude at all. It's for everybody's protection: cards fall on the floor often, especially if you have poor shuffling procedures. It's all part of running a clean, trusted game.

Even as a player, i'll count the deck down compulsively. Make a joke about being paranoid if people look at you funny, but it usually doesn't take more than about 10 seconds for them to figure out that a little order in the game is a good thing.

You might be surprised how much value it has to be the guy with integrity.

The people telling me to not play with him/invite him were part of the group but weren't playing there that night. The people playing would understand if I didn't invite him bar a couple who are his best friends.

I haven't bought a cut card yet but I've put a card from a different deck (different back color) at the bottom upside down to act as a cut card, are there any bet ideas?

I know everyone feels it is very ****ty as I go out of my way to stock up the fridge, cook, order food, have snacks etc. and never ask for money and don't think twice. It's part of the reason that I lost my cool I actually said "just because I am nice to you doesn't mean you can **** me over in my own house".

Since you don't actually "cut" the deck w/ the cut card (just place half the deck on top of the card then the remaining cards on top of that) you don't need it to be real thin. You can just cut a card-sized piece of cardboard from a Coke 12pack or something similar to get you by until you can get some. I don't really like using cards from other decks, sure the back isn't the same but they can get mixed into the deck and it's harder to find in the pile.

I know getting cut cards is difficult:

http://discountcasinogear.com/store/...affcode=SEARCH

http://spinettisgaming.com/?page=products&sub1=67

It looks like you have the support of the group if you disinvite him. Look at it this way: You have every reason to kick him out permanently, and others are even telling you to, but you still feel conflicted about it. These guys have less reason, so they're even more adverse to making a decision. I have a feeling if you just stand up and state under no uncertain terms that he's done playing in your house that you would have practically everybody backing you up. They might even thank you for it.

If a couple of his best friends whine about it, you don't have to argue. "Explain to me please why you think it's acceptable for him to enter my home, eat my food, drink my drinks, and then try to steal from me?" End of conversation. You have truth and justice on your side. And I have a feeling these guys know it, and will react with, "Well, yeah, we like him, but that sucked, you're justified." If they can't understand that, then they're probably not good for the group either.

Aren't you the one with all of the disparate decks?

" Harder to find?" How similar are your decks?

Generally you are better off if you don't hear it.