Well if you aren't going to videotape the cheater in action I hope his coworkers have enough sense to videotape their confrontation.

You may be actually surprised how nonchalant his reaction might be in the end. Cheaters like that look at you as sheep to shear, getting what you deserve, and not as long time friends he is screwing over. Often their only reaction is to move on to the next scam like you and the group don't and never existed. Will be interesting to hear more on how this turns out.

Recording him in action is probably your best option. Go to the game with a group of (level-headed) people who know what he's up to, and surreptitiously film him cheating from multiple angles. You should always have proof for such an accusation, as a cheat this dedicated will probably deny it up and down even when confronted by multiple eyewitnesses. Even if he admits to it, where does that leave you? It's not like you have anything concrete that would count as more than personal anecdotes.

The video may not amount to anything but a way to prove to others that he's a cheat. Or perhaps you could use it to leverage some refunds out of him instead of coming out of pocket yourself. Squeeze everything of value that you can out of him on the promise that you'll delete the video, and record him willingly paying up too (in case he tries to call the police and say he was robbed). Then split up the proceeds among the victims, and post the video online anyway. Publicly. With his name attached.

Just some thoughts, though. Having the video is a good idea in any case. What you do with it is up to you. And of course, don't let him cash out anything from this last "game." Have someone snatch up the purse while he's in the bathroom or something, and chop it up later.

I think paying everyone back is very honorable, by the way, but nuts. Crushing a $0.50/$1 game like this consistently for 5 years puts his loot in the tens of thousands. It's not your fault that he's a thieving piece of ****, and you're certainly not the only person who "allowed" it to happen.

Confronting the guy at work seems like a very bad idea. How's that going to play out? Best case scenario, nothing happens. He accepts his being caught and slinks into a corner. Worst case, Hothead blows up at work and sinks his career or something, and it's my experience that everyone in such a confrontation ends up catching heat. HR tends to frown upon people bringing their personal drama to work. In the end, you're risking some very negative real-life outcomes for what? No real gain.

4 of us who have played for years ALL were a whiteness to the antics that were being done orbit after orbit for 1 hour. A friend of Mr x for over 10 years will be confronting his boss Mr x. It would not surprise me if Mr x denies what happened. Friendships will be tarnished among the group.

Right now it's a wait and see.

Mr X is a guys boss?!?! Confronting him at all is a terrible idea for the subordinate! A few $K isn't worth losing a legitimate job over.

Cheating is one of if not the worst offense in a poker game. I will not be confronting Mr X as I don't work with him. Just like friendships should not be lost over a few k, relationships and trust has been lost. The subordinate has been besties with Mr X for approximately 10 years.

Was going over the numbers and Mr X has walked away with just shy of $2k in the last 3 session (6 weeks.) This includes 2 tournaments where he was the overwhelming chip leader and was given 1st place money and 3 $0.50/$1 cash game with a $50 max buy in.

Sorry man, but this thread is a cluster.

1) The proper procedures were not in place to reduce cheating. No card card, no cutting, thumbing through the deck. The man got quads multiple times in every session for years. Someone should've been looking for this WAY sooner, especially since the proper procedures weren't being followed. You should be doing those things to first reduce the chances of cheating and also so that other players have the appearance that nothing funny is going on.

2) Not confronting him during the game and letting him continue to cheat throughout the game is terrible. Why would you continue to play if he is cheating... Confront him, ban him, and his current money stays on the table. Hell give everyone their buy ins back and start over. If I were one of the players that was left out of the loop while there was a known cheater playing I'd be pissed.

3) Confronting him during work is possibly the worst thing yet in this thread. No reason to possibly ruin careers over a poker game. This is something that happened outside of work, keep it outside.

I think it's great that you're trying to repay players, but that's not your responsibility. Give the cheater the chance to make things right with people if he so chooses (he probably won't).

Sorry it happened, but the door was open. Hopefully you can repair the damage, but it might be difficult to do. My offer stands if you ever want to come play with us and would give you a better handle on how to run things for the future.

Sent you a PM

The game was shut down 7 handed within 1 hr of it being noticed. 4 players also witnessed this take place. The only 2 players who did not know are new to poker and I gave them a refund for losses. They would have no idea what I was talking about with the cheating taken place. I explained to them after the fact so they new what was up. The only reason the game went a little longer was so that others could also witness this with their own eyes. One showed a flopped set and the other an AK on a K high flop only to fold after the flop. At this point it was game over. As far a cheater trying to make things right, I don't see this happening but again, anything is possible.

OP first suspected something a year ago. Interesting to read the old thread in light of recent event.

Man this whole thing gets me a little fired up. I can't stand cheaters and thieves. It sucks that the next game is scheduled for Mr. X's house, because it would be great to play your normal game and everyone else just fold pre-flop every time this guy dealt. Cheating problem fixed, and then at cash out time, no money for him, and let him know that he's not welcomed anymore. No explanation even necessary. Please keep us updated as to how this plays out. Good luck.

Thanks for reposting this thread. Very enlightening to re read it in light of the latest thread by the OP.

I thought this sounded familiar! I had like 4 or 5 posts in that thread (which is amazing I got into both considering I don't post in Home Poker much).

I even suggested a 3 player shuffle/cut/deal in that thread too.

At least we got closure on it.

I only ever played in low stakes home games, but still in every game I have ever played in, one person shuffled, a second person cut the cards, and a third person dealt. It's actually a very easy system to use with two decks of cards. The guy who just finished dealing shuffles while the next hand is going on, at the end of the hand he passes the deck to the player to his left, who cuts it, then it is passed to the player one more to the left, who deals.

there is a solid chance he's taken close to, if not over, 6 figures from you guys. that is scary

He may not have done it earlier (which is not to say he didn't cheat in some other way).

Sounds right.

You call them up, one at a time, tell them, and also tell them who else witnessed the cheating.

Sounds right.

That's your own business. (I don't think you're obligated to do that).

I think that's a poor idea. If it were someone in my game, I'd talk to him directly, man to man and matter of fact. (You know he cheated and he knows he cheated).

You and three other witnesses is all you need.

Bad idea.

I believe he will deny it.

For sure friendships will be tarnished with the cheater. But this incident should bring the rest of the group closer together.

Keep us posted.

Buzz

Have read your posts several times and still confused on how someone in plain sight of an entire table managed to "pull and pick" cards that improved his hand. Can you elaborate? Also lolz at this guy getting quads 2-3x per session.. I think I might have gotten quads with a pair twice in the last 2 years.

Nice, thanks for the research.

I called Mr. X a cheat right away in that thread because his hot streak was too astronomically improbable. Pure math, without even knowing the guy. It's virtually impossible for a sucker of that magnitude to crush any game so consistently (never mind the insane frequency with which he hit quads).

And here we are today, confirmed that he's a cheat. Sometimes you gotta follow the math.

Yes you did. A few others were highly suspicious. I considered it possible , but thought it was more likely overstatement of quality hands by the OP and MrX simply being the best player in a group very poor players! Kudos to you sir.

Still can't fathom this going on so openly and for so long. How could everyone miss this is beyond me!

I was just gonna post lololololol by this guy summed it up.

In all the home games I play, we play with 2 decks. When a hand is over, the next dealer starts to deal and the person who just finished dealing will shuffle the previous hands cards. After that hand, he passes them to his left, that player will cut, and pass to the person who is dealing the hand.

So basically a bunch of "friends" are playing "poker" and one of the "friends" is turning the deck upside-down and digging around until he finds cards he likes and then places them on the bottom of the deck (or behind his ear) or wherever for later use and none of the other "friends" stop him and say WTF??

Is he only doing this when it's his turn to deal or do you guys just let him reach over and rummage around in the deck looking for "really good cards"? Is this poker or "Go Fish?"

You do know that most poker games have rules, right? Many of those rules address how cards are dealt during play. You may want to look into that.

Oh, and this "friend" you have? Get rid of him. And maybe look into another game to play besides "poker" because I don't really think you guys are playing it right now.

;-)

+3 on getting video proof before confronting.

Without recorded evidence to confront him with, he's just going to deny it. With video evidence, he can't deny it, and there is a slim possibility he may make some degree of restitution.

A bunch of factors played into this complacency by the players:
- People were so comfortable with the regular players that played on a regular monthly basis at the absolute minimum.
- We are all in our mid 30s to late 40s that work within the same 3 companies (2 companies at VP level and the remaining as exempt employees with 5 yr minimum job history at the same financial institution.)
- 4 of us hosted games in the rotation
- everyone has young kids (none for me) so lots of similarities and stories
- everyone has nice large homes and it appeared that everyone who played had excess income to spend (looks can be deceiving)
- the game was never about the money it was about getting together with the guys for drinks to watch a game and play cards
- the game used to be so friendly that it was .25/.50 with a $25 max buy in. Every time you reached $75, you had to cash out a rack and go down to $50

It was always a great atmosphere among friends.

Someone cheating was never a thought among this group.

We always played with 2 clean decks and the deck was passed forward to the next dealer to shuffle and then offer a cut to the right.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I have been playing cards for 20 years and have close to if not 40 trips to Vegas to strictly play poker for 7-10+ days at a time. By using quality cards, custom chips, drawing for table and seats at the start, splitting up husband/wife and when tables break, I thought it would have been more than sufficient. I had used cut cards in the past but abandoned them a while back. Going forward there will be multiple change to all games to ensure its fair regardless of the stakes.

Going forward:
Cut cards will be mandatory
The deck will be shuffled 2 players forward with the middle person cutting every hand
Mr X will not be invited back

Open to any additional ways to prevent being vulnerable to being cheated.