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03-21-2011 , 08:02 AM

#26

Lottery Larry

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Quote:

Originally Posted by The Palimax

Pretend there's no re-buy limit. You buy-in max, right? You cover the table if you're better than them and if your bankroll can support it, no?

When you plot the game on your time-line, it doesn't matter that you took a week between hand #656,213 and hand #656,214.

But, if you're cut off from using that bankroll, how do you grind out your +EV?

And, even then, it depends on what reasons you're playing for. If I could play for 15 minutes on my $1k buy-in, or play all night on my five $200 buy-ins....

I'm not sure you can reduce this down to a formula.

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03-21-2011 , 09:16 AM

#27

eneely

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Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 9,791

It seems Palimax and I are on the same page.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lottery Larry

But, if you're cut off from using that bankroll, how do you grind out your +EV?

You can't, of course, but what can you do about it? OP assumes we cannot change the game, right? We can either play or not. I say we play.

No one is saying this is optimal. But, unless there is a better game to play in, or other entertainment or money-making opportunities that seems like a better use of our time, there is nothing wrong with this game. You may not play as long as you like, but while you are playing, it is just a regular poker game.

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03-21-2011 , 11:59 AM

#28

Schmendr1ck

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Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 6,556

From a pure poker standpoint, I agree with Pali. You buy in to cover (probably the full $300) and play your best game with no regard for the cooling-off period between rebuys.

But as an "entertainment" player who only gets to play live once or twice a week, this strategy doesn't appeal to me at all. I'm not going to want to get coolered the first hand and go home for a week, so I'm likely to buy in for half and keep a second bullet in my pocket.

If there's another game that doesn't impose the limit, I'm probably going to choose that one instead.

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03-21-2011 , 03:04 PM

#29

The Palimax

Livin' the dream as a Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 8,637

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmendr1ck

Well, there an an opportunity cost to calculate. If you know you make $10/hour in this game on average, and the game goes for 10 hours, busting out on the first hand costs you $100. Getting $300 in on the fist hand of the night 70/30 is worth $110. From a pure poker standpoint, it's worth it.

Of course, those might not be your numbers...

And, yes, there's the esoteric cost of playing poker. It's worth $10/hour to me to play in some games. I like poker -- with the right games, right people, etc.

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03-21-2011 , 10:56 PM

#30

Lottery Larry

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Quote:

Originally Posted by eneely

I'm not saying "don't play". I'm saying "don't buy in for the max":

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmendr1ck

But as an "entertainment" player who only gets to play live once or twice a week, this strategy doesn't appeal to me at all. I'm not going to want to get coolered the first hand and go home for a week, so I'm likely to buy in for half and keep a second bullet in my pocket.

That, and if you have several people dumping out early and forced to leave, the game's future is at risk (imo).

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03-22-2011 , 06:32 PM

#31

The Palimax

Livin' the dream as a Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 8,637

To refine the formula, your opportunity cost is any fixed costs of attending the game (gas, baby-sitter), the value of your time (expressed as money lost from not working or as value gained by getting to play) plus the game's expected value over the normal value of playing poker elsewhere. [The last one is important. If you win $20/hr in the game normally, and you win $10 in another game you could be at, this game is +10 in your calculation. If you can go to the casino and lose $20/hour, this game might be HUGE for you.]

Remember, getting $300 in on the first hand 70/30 is worth $110, but getting $100 in on the first hand is only worth $36.

What's the cost of not getting to play the other 8 hours of the game? Is it worth $73?

How many more situations do you give up equity because you're playing short? Even if you double to $200, do you give up $33 again in the night?

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03-22-2011 , 07:13 PM

#32

Lottery Larry

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Quote:

Originally Posted by The Palimax

I'm assuming you'd be playing elsewhere, if there was a better game to be had. So, that doesn't count.

I'm not good enough to calculate your EV return, over an evening's worth of play, against worse players with a cap. I suspect it's higher than an all-or-nothing shot, since doubling up gains you much less long term over the evening.

Why? Because, though you are protected from unlucky feltings after your double up.... your earn potential is also affected by the cap.

Still think it's better one-n-done?

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03-22-2011 , 07:43 PM

#33

The Palimax

Livin' the dream as a Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 8,637

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lottery Larry

I'm assuming you'd be playing elsewhere, if there was a better game to be had. So, that doesn't count.

It most certainly does.

If this game is $10 an hour on average, and another game is $5 an hour on average, then it only costs you $5 an hour in opportunity cost to bust out of it early. -- [plus any time/travel costs to the new game]

QED

If the game is very soft (e.g. sitting out has a high lost opportunity cost), then it's possibly better to short-stack, or at least sit with a small rebuy (200 initial, 100 back). If the game is only a little soft but still +EV to play in, then it's a good idea to get all $300 on the table as soon as any other bad player has $300 on the table so that you cover them.

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