It was a huge night, more money on the table than usual, and hardly anybody cashed out. Before the game broke, two people left with large cashouts, two left with exactly $100, everyone else was empty-handed.

We broke 4-handed and counted out all the chips and left money on the table in front of each stack. We had $200 left. Unsure if it was exact, as I cash out dollars from a supply of gold coins, but it was enough that someone should have noticed.

For the two who cashed out big earlier, we used racks, I counted the chips twice in front of them, counted the money out twice, had them count it.

The slick-talker of the group made the point that as we're the people who tend to close down games, we've all been responsible for covering when the bank was short, both here and elsewhere, so we should receive equal treatment when the bank is over.

But this is a lot of money for a .5/1 game. We agreed to take $30 each and put the rest to the donation can for booze/supplies. If anybody comes claiming they were shorted $100, we give it back.

What should I do now? Should I contact those who cashed out earlier and ask if anything was wrong, or should I wait for them to contact me? One person I think wouldn't say anything even if he noticed. I don't want to rip anybody off, but I don't want to open up a huge can of worms, either.

Or should I just forget it? I've put a lot of money into buying cards and chips and booze and whatnot. Can I justify the $30 as payback for the many times I've been shorted? Can I justify the $80 for the house since it all goes back to the game?

What would you do overall? This has never happened before. The bank is always exactly right, with the occasional <$40 swing in either direction, but that is very rare.

Mystery solved, I got an email from someone claiming to be $200 short. Whew. But for next time, anyone have any better ways of handling it?

I'd triple count it next time since double counting didn't work. If it was still over significantly I'd ask if anyone was short since you know that you all have been wrong before.

If no-one claims/misses it...beer & snacks + tournament prize money sounds good to me.

Sorry, everyone is responsible for his/her own money in my book. I know, it's a friendly game but that should still apply. The host/bank can't be held responsible for players being unable to count the chips or money. Once you mention that you have too much money left from your last poker game, surely someone will claim it. That's why I like the idea of sponsoring a tournament-event with free beer and snacks.

that is a little higher than the normal end of the night cash out confusion but it eventually comes down to you ( i know you know that though ) because you are the guy that handles the money. No biggie, it got resolved. IM sure you prolly figured out where you messed up in the process by now. Bu in a similar situation I may have kept some for snacks, drinks, TP and stuff. The rest, give someone time to claim it, I wouldnt call someone to ask, thats like offering to them all they have to say is "yes its mine" lol.After your predetermined amount of time do what you feel is fair, keep it, touney prize, more things for your game (cards chips etc). IMO.

pfapfap, I was $200 short, please ship it

I figure you probably trust these guys, but did it occur to you that the guy who called may have heard you were 200 bucks over and that you intended to give it to whoever claimed it?

Obviously slick-talker contacted this person and told them to claim he was $200 short so they could split it and he'd get an extra $70 out of the situation.

Ok, probably not. But, for this reason, I think it's best to have a rule that you have to speak up at the time you are getting your payout, otherwise all payouts are final.

So, thinking back, what were the possible sources of mistakes that could have caused such a big overlay? Maybe your drunken kabals need to be reined back a bit?

That is where I'd focus your efforts, to make sure it doesn't happen again, since you've seemed to resolved this situation.

(htf did someone miss that they were 200BB short in payout?)

as the banker htf do you not remember who it could have been? When I'm hosting I usually can tell you how much everyone is generally up or down. Not realizing 200bb during a cashout is bad, not realizing who it is after you know about the +200bb = bad poker host.

Why does everyone insist on saying 200BB? $200 seems easier to type and makes more sense. Sorry, I had margaritas at lunch.

question: what is your proceedure when the bank is short? judt do the opposite of that when you are over.

In this case, given the large round dollar amount, it does appear it was a cashout issue. but more often when there's an overage or shortage, we can trace it back to someone busting and buying more chips. Because the busted player wants to get back to action, and person in charge of bank is usually playing as well, the carelessness factor shoots up in these situations. At time of cashout or initial buy-in, people are more careful. Just FYI to not rush mid-session rebuys.

ohhhhh boy, here we go...

Because 2 bills in a $5/10 game is a lot easier miss than 200 BB in a 1BB poker game, THAT'S why... margaritaboy.

Nah. He's from a different circle than those who were remaining. On top of that, the datestamp from his email was from before we even noticed it was over. Next time, I'll check email before making any decisions.

I know I talk up the drunkenness of my game, but a lot of that is hyperbole. I stay more sober than I make it appear. And last night was more sober than most, which is why this was especially odd.

I think what happened is that we counted up the chips and I was getting out the cash, and then he's all "make it xxx" meaning to give the rest to the house. I may have put down the 10 $20s to separate out his donation in chips, and then pocketed it.

Absolutely. Tho' I've been doing this for a couple of years now and am exactly right the vast majority of the time. Still, obviously I need to be more careful.

That only two people cashed out for an amount where this could have happened certainly did help things. Problem was, I couldn't think of a good way to approach them. One of them is a little shifty and I'm not sure I could've trusted his response either way, and I wouldn't want to feel like he felt pressured to eat the loss.

Uh, that doesn't make much sense. I know who cashed out for big amounts, but if I could remember that I shorted someone 200BB, obviously I wouldn't have shorted the person.

I eat it. Often times those who are left and up will donate a few bucks to help me cover it. That's why I was swayed with the idea of those closing the game to get a little back, with the rest going to the food/drink fund.


Thanks for all your responses. I'm glad I wasn't completely out of line in thinking that if it went unclaimed, it was reasonable for it to go to the very people who pay money when the bank is light. But I still didn't like that solution, and if I hadn't heard from anybody by today, I was going to probe for ideas on how to present it to the group without setting off a cascade of "I'm Spartacus!" (or Brian)

This:
... seems to be contradicted by this:

How do you eat missing money? I think it's time to try on the Mr Sober Host alter ego.....

I asked because I also eat it, but also keep overages. Never quite $200, but may be +/- $5 or $10. Also, when the player and the cash leaves the house... good luck calling me and saying "I think you shorted me at cashout"... deal with it DURING cash out.

i dont have a dog in this fight, but i always keep a little notebook with each players first name and the amount they each buyin for and what i cash them out at...

with a running total of the buyin - cashouts...

has helped solve the "wtf" a few times... knowing exactly how much money is in the game...and how much left the game.

you should use this event as an opportunity to set some house rules in case it happens again.

the 50% to usual coverers and 50% to favors as you did seems fair, but if you dont feel good about it you should put it all back into the game.

the freeroll is a great idea, and anyone who plays .50/1 regularly will jump at a free chance at $200. if you take a rake you could beef the prize up. you might also think about a stack bonus for nights, or hrs, played (who wants to keep track of hrs really?), or only open the freeroll to your regulars. it would probably be unfair for someone who has never played or helped cover a short pot or was even there the night the pot was heavy the same chance at the money.

i realize that this peticular money is prolly already returned, or on the way, but it seems easier and just as fair to have rules set for extra money than to triple count everyone.

I had the munchies, had to eat something. I can't tell if you're leveling me, so I'll do my straight man earnest response and say that "eat it" means "I pay for it out of my own personal money that I keep separate from the bank."

Well, sure, and for $20, too bad. But when I have $200 extra and someone emails me at the same time with "I'm short $200, and here are a lot of reasons why I'm pretty sure that's accurate" ... it's fairly easy to figure out that I owe that person the money.

I've seen mention of this before, that people keep lists. I'm curious how this helps? Or is it just that writing down the number forces you to count it again? I'm already run ragged enough as it is constantly doing rebuys for 14 people all night long, and I'm not sure how writing it down would have changed anything here, or helped at the end of the night.

I agree I should have something established for next time, and I'll talk it over with folks at the next game. However, while establishing "more beer! woohoo!" is certainly easier, I feel the long-term health and integrity of the game is served by triple-checking.

I agree in this case, and I'd do the same thing.

It's a good idea and I've seen hosts try to do this but give up when the rebuys come fast and furious.

Hehe. Leveled.

I would never do this - not because it is a bad idea to protect against miscounting, but rather because I'd hate even the suggestion of record-keeping to the donators at my home game. I live in trepidation that one day one of my players will suggest that we keep a running count on wins & losses.