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Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

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05-16-2019 , 03:57 PM

#13801

Hero Protagonist

adept

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 770

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

I don't have a problem with the Sansa line in isolation, if Sansa had been shown as a deeply traumatized person who nevertheless had learned and grown. That is how someone could cope with serious bad **** happening to them, telling a story to themselves about how it made them who they are.

In the show, however, Sansa did all of her learning and growing offscreen, there's no connection to any of that ****, she was an idiot just getting manhandled by the plot for 6 seasons, then halfway through season 7 she cast some sort of spell and stole half of Tyrion's IQ points.

There was slow growth but it was there. And she was clearly learning from Littlefinger. I think if they tried to show more it would have been boring as ****.

The real problem with Sansa's arc is that she is clearly supposed to be super smart and Machiavellian now but she completely botched her relationship with Dany. Instead of hiding her skepticism about Dany she wore it right on her sleeve, and drove Dany not to trust her.

I also thought that Jaime Cersei scene was rape.

Last edited by Hero Protagonist; 05-16-2019 at 04:03 PM.

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05-16-2019 , 04:14 PM

#13802

cashy

we have welbeck

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 29,773

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

cashy- Kid I'm gonna assume you're like 19. This advice might not set in right away, but it's good advice: stop watching political Youtubes. It's bad for you. I know it gives you a sense of unearned superiority and community, but the end of that road is not a place you want to go.

Flywf the road to freedom and bliss is in the other direction.
I hope you find the courage to go inside and face yourself instead of building up your false sense of self.
best of luck!

05-16-2019 , 07:25 PM

#13803

cashy

we have welbeck

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 29,773

what I find so annoying about the butchered daenerys arc is the fact that the showrunners have already shown that they can nail situations like that.

Stannis burning his own child out of pure desperation and delusion was well done and set-up

05-16-2019 , 07:41 PM

#13804

Clovis8

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 16,503

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashy

D&D vs Martin

05-16-2019 , 11:37 PM

#13805

ChrisV

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40,336

Actually that was the shows execution, if not show plotting. Burning of Shireen hasn't happened in the books, but it will, it was the second "holy ****" moment. Some book fans think it won't be Stannis who orders it.

05-17-2019 , 06:56 AM

#13806

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,951

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

Different character same conversation.

X character changed, the change is not satisfactory.

05-17-2019 , 06:59 AM

#13807

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,951

Quote:

Originally Posted by baudib1

LMAO so the argument is that the rape scene which is 100% a rape scene proves that the showrunners aren't misogynists because they didn't realize it was a rape scene? OK.

If it is a rape scene (I have no hill to die on here, I did not see it as one, but if others did, then fine) then surely the sexism comes from how absolutely fine with it Cersei was.

Did the rape have any impact on her relationship with Jamie? I cant recall any, and I cant even remember it being referenced as a dramatic occurrence of any import at all in the show.

Last edited by O.A.F.K.1.1; 05-17-2019 at 07:14 AM.

05-17-2019 , 07:00 AM

#13808

Ra_Z_Boy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 36,966

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisV

Well "they're not married and it's incest" applies to every act of sex ever between them, that doesn't make it rape.

Personally I didn't ever think that scene depicted rape, that was a take I read on the internet after the ep. I find it a bit weird how that scene is singled out to be examined critically with the lens of modern morality. Drogo straight up rapes Dany repeatedly in S1 and then later he's her "sun and stars" and she's in love and thinks he's awesome, but for some reason that wasn't as controversial. I had similar sorts of feelings about the Cersei scene, like obviously I think that's rape in the real world, but the real world isn't being depicted. It's a world where women are given away into sexual slavery to cement political alliances on the regular.

Compare that with attitudes to acts of horrific violence in the series. Dany has 163 people crucified alive in Meereen without bothering to find out who was actually at fault for the crimes committed and it's "hmm, was Dany's dark turn REALLY set up, or was it totally out of the blue?". (Correctly so, because in-world, in the circumstances Dany was in, crucifying people like that is standard operating procedure). But when Jaime keeps his dick in Cersei for one second after she says "no", oh man, better man the Twitter barricades, we need a long discussion on how this is problematic for Jaime and makes him a bad guy.

The problem isn't the rape...it's that it would be ridiculously out of character for both of them. Unlike Drogo...

05-17-2019 , 07:04 AM

#13809

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,951

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashy

and there is truth to that
women just like men have certain advantages/disadvantages

our society is overcompensating sexism instead of finding the right balance, acting like men and women are the same is not the answer ffs

It absolutely is the answer because every society has shown itself at being terrible at not attempting to objectify subjective social constructs.

Once a social construct has been objectified, structures will then arrange themselves around that objectification socialising men/women to conform to such.

Essentially your post is no better than:

05-17-2019 , 07:08 AM

#13810

Bluegrassplayer

banned

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 40,427

Drogo rapes Dany? I remember in the books there's a lot of emphasis on him being really gentle with her until shes comfortable. Later on it's difficult for her because he goes at it hard after she's been on a horse on day, but it's more of a physical problem and she willingly endures it. I do not remember her ever trying to refuse him.

05-17-2019 , 07:13 AM

#13811

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,951

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ra_Z_Boy

The problem isn't the rape...it's that it would be ridiculously out of character for both of them. Unlike Drogo...

How is it ridiculously out of character though, they are brother and sister DTF in a big way, lines have already been crossed.

Their ****ing and attachment to each other is one of the main dramatic drivers of the whole show.

05-17-2019 , 08:08 AM

#13812

ChrisV

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer

In the show, on their wedding night, she's crying, scared and trying to cover herself up and he has sex with her anyway. It's near the end of ep 1. In the books, Daenerys III, AGOT:

Quote:

Yet every night, some time before the dawn, Drogo would come to her tent and wake her in the dark, to ride her as relentlessly as he rode his stallion. He always took her from behind, Dothraki fashion, for which Dany was grateful; that way her lord husband could not see the tears that wet her face, and she could use her pillow to muffle her cries of pain. When he was done, he would close his eyes and begin to snore softly and Dany would lie beside him, her body bruised and sore, hurting too much for sleep.

Day followed day, and night followed night, until Dany knew she could not endure a moment longer. She would kill herself rather than go on, she decided one night …

Dany hasn't consented to any of this and in fact explicitly tells her brother she doesn't want to marry Drogo. And of course she doesn't try to refuse him, she'd be put to death. By the lights of modern morality, this is out beyond rape and into sexual slavery.

05-17-2019 , 08:32 AM

#13813

Bluegrassplayer

banned

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 40,427

Hmmmm I see, thanks. Not how I remembered it.

05-17-2019 , 09:52 AM

#13814

Xenoblade

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 3,891

don't bring the #metoo thing into this tv show for god sake

05-17-2019 , 09:55 AM

#13815

Sir Huntington

banned

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,354

Wasn't she like 12 at that time too? She getting devirginized by a giant barbarian, best you can hope for at that time is a micro penis.

05-17-2019 , 10:21 AM

#13816

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 67,116

Seems a bit racist

05-17-2019 , 12:22 PM

#13817

Melkerson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 11,614

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Treesong

You’re ridiculously patronizing, do you know that?

You must be new here.

05-17-2019 , 01:24 PM

#13818

September.28

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 628

Okay getting away from the currently sex stuff, and grunching this thread a bit,

If succession in most people's eyes is Jon, Dany, Gendry who is 4th if Joffrey was able to kill off all of the rest of Robert's bastards?

When Cersei became straight up Queen (not just married to King Robert) did that legitimize Tyrion to the line of succession?

Therefore any living Targaryens, Baratheons or ?Lannister?

Last edited by September.28; 05-17-2019 at 01:38 PM.

05-17-2019 , 01:42 PM

#13819

Jack Bando

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 7,587

Quote:

Originally Posted by September.28

In the show since they don't even hint at anyone having cousins or anything, there really is no one actually left that follows the rules after Gendry.

Cersei becoming queen makes no sense if you actually follow succession law, but if you follow "I have an army and The Mountain" then yeah she's queen.

Doesn't make Tyrion next in line and he's DQed due to being a convicted Kingslayer+Double Kinslayer.

05-17-2019 , 02:52 PM

#13820

revots33

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 13,477

Latest fan theory I read is that Jaime shielded Cersie from the falling rubble and she's still alive.

As cliche as that would be I'm rooting for it to be true so that Cersie can kill Dany and keep the throne. Cersie is the only character still worth rooting for in this s***show.

05-17-2019 , 03:39 PM

#13821

cashy

we have welbeck

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 29,773

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1

I'm working in a field where females toughen up(because they feel they are forced to) and it's horrible for them(my ex-girlfriend struggled immensely with it) and sub-optimal for the company as well.

Women should be allowed to embrace who they are, embrace their strength, their empathy instead of feeling forced to be somebody they are not.

The problem of our society is that most "female strengths" are considered weak which is ridiculous