Being able to imagine no WW so what if I can or cant?

EH?

They are in the show we are talking about, I cant see what purpose imagining them out of that show achieves in anyway.

Also am not arguing that the genesis of that problem dates to the last episode at all, I am arguing that the last episode makes it 100% that the problem will never be solved. This episode makes the genesis of the problem the first moment we see a WW on screen. Ahhh we think, this might be interesting.....wrong.

Unless of course they pull some surprise NK not really dead, cant see that happening.

From the little we know about the Night King, it just doesn't seem like he would do that.

He's had multiple chances to go 1v1 with Jon Snow and declined.
Two possible reasons:
1. He understands that Jon is a very real threat to himself and thus, his entire army. He knows Jon carries a Valyrian steel sword that he used to dispatch a WW at Hardhome.
2. He just doesn't care about Jon at all, sees him as beneath him and/or doesn't care about taking out the human leadership. His only real objective is to find Bran.

Some sort of insight on his relationship with Bran would have been great, IMO. I do think that a lot of stuff on the first Long Night, the walkers and the Night's King (not the Night King) is going to be fodder for the prequel.

"Walkers aren't a character" not "Walkers don't exist". Ebola is the main threat in the movie Outbreak, but it's not a character.

How does this have any bearing on the discussion. The NK is a character in the show, well barely. I just closed my eyes and imagined him not in the show.

Not sure how that helps with the show, which in fact yes he is indeed a character.

Im happy to discuss this point, please clarify. Last night involved a lot of beer and if you are making a point Im not getting it.

Are you saying the treatment of the NK (in the show) was fine because he was just a threat like ebola and never a character?

Writers:

Dany has loads of men, and 3 dragons. We need to make it more even for Cersie bowl, how do we do that?

NIGHT KING!!!!!.

Night King is little more than a handicapper.

Which is fine if it had not been achieved in such a transparent and lazy way.

If this was actually a strategy show it would have to be to avoid direct conflict and use your crazy maneuverable, crazy high damage, almost impossible to kill dragons and just constantly harass the opposing army and their logistics.

If Cersei comes North she’s going to have very long and vulnerable supply lines. If she defends she can be sieged extremely easily and be reduced to ruling KL and basically nothing else.

The use of dragons has to be one of the worst aspects of this show.

rewatched the episode, man such a shame it was fantastic til around the 40min mark when the story started to **** it all up


this video sums up the problems of this episode and S7+8 on a whole perfectly imo

if you refering to the "blue eyes" quote, they clearly just reused that for the night king because coincidentally it fit.

story wise arya killing the night king makes no sense at all, her story arc had nothing to do whatsoever with the threat in the north and they just used her for a "shock twist"

it's a cheap and unsatisfying way out, it reminds me a bit of the disappointment of "lost". So much exciting stuff which, in the end, was just completely meaningless.
why did i ever care what bran did beyond the wall? what's the frigging point of melisandre and all the prophecies?
why did i ever care about the night king? turned out to just be a smirking douchebag.

also i'm perfectly fine with what they did to jon in this episode, the night king never really gaf about him anyway. it was all about bran from the beginning and THAT'S what's so dissappointing.

"ready? ye i am, gave arya the dagger that's all i had to do, back to having fun flying my ravens around lalallalalala"

I was going to post that the "blue eyes" thing is super obviously retconned but I couldn't be bothered. Arya killing the NK I seriously could not care less about. Imo the entire idea that there was ever going to be an ending to the NK plot that didn't suck is delusional.

ya ok, but for the sake of argument?

yeah, standard fantasy problem where you create powerful characters, but need ways to constrain them so as to not be op

in this case they've seemed to have gone with "dany & jon are just really dumb"
(throw in tyrion too)

The other problem is that several seasons were dedicated to Cersei failing at ruling. They've had to invent 2 armies out of thin air for her once they decided she was the main baddie.

I stopped watching when the narrator said “season six was the perfect season.”

No.

Stupid giant chains for walkers who can’t swim to pull a dragon out of the water

Stupid benjen coming from nowhere to save Jon

Impossible timing with gendry’s run back south for a ridiculous impossible rescue

I can’t imagine GRRM writing any of these implausibilities.

I still love the show because of the character development from seasons 1-4 but the showrunners inject stupid in place of grrm’s plots. I agree that GRRM has too many characters and plot lines and will have trouble resolving them, but his flaws are small compared to Hollywood shallowness.

Also: the NK’s smirk just plain pisses me off.

Cersei ruling King's Landing is one of the worst things this show has ever done. They didn't have to have her actually take the throne to make her the main antagonist. Her becoming queen is so implausible it's hard to take it seriously. It's another example of D&D not understanding the characters they were handed on a silver platter. Cersei's entire point is that she feels underestimated as a woman. Her father never expected her to rule, he expected her to marry and birth children to increase their families place in the world. So she lashed out by abusing what power she had whenever she could. It would have been far more powerful had someone she could manipulate had taken the throne, and she pulled strings in an unassuming role.

ya that was all season 7, from the same ep iirc (Beyond the Wall)


but yeah, season 6 had major problems as well
calling it perfect is pretty lol

S6 isn't a top 5 season of GoT lol what the heck

Whoops, my mistake, thanks.

dude words can mean different and multiple and even contradictory things. esp in entertainment ie books and acting.

Apparently the night king isn't in the books as he is in the show. What if the show runners just ****ed up then just went with it. Now theyre just like uhh I guess we gotta fix this early on in this season so they just half ass killed him off.

Sansa ends up on the Throne. With Tyrion at her side, revealed to be a secret Targaryen.

Dany dies, Rhaegal dies. Tyrion inherits ownership of Drogon.

Arya kills Cersei, Jaime dies defending Brienne.

The Hound kills the Mountain. The three fiercest killers in the land -- Arya, The Hound and Brienne, are loyal to Sansa.

Alt-Shift-X's recap of the episode is out.



It's relatively negative, I think it's good although I don't agree with every word of it. I nearly fell off my chair when he says this at 18:37:

I mean, I don't THINK he's reading this thread. Right?

In the end the Night King just isn't a major character in the show. He's much like Mance Rayder, a figure whose presence looms large but is only a minor character in the grand scheme of things. Both appear in just 5 episodes, the same as Randyl Tarly, another character you hear quite a bit about but don't see much.

yeah but the night king represents the threat of the undead from the first scene of the first episode, the mystery in the show, etc.

it's like if Ron Weasley killed voldemort in the penultimate movie (and everybody knew there was another movie).

It feels really hard to get hyped for the last 3 episodes, but the fact that theres 3 left gives me a bit of hope they might surprise people since expectations are low.

The only way Sansa should end up on the Throne is if she turns heel, or if Dany and Jon die.

Jon spent his whole arc uniting the north with the wildlings, and then with Dany's army.

Otoh, Sansa's achievements are an assist with killing Littlefinger, and after that being good at sewing.

Would make zero sense for the 7 kingdoms to just follow her rule ahead of Dany and Jon because of *reasons*.