Agree with this. We are hella deep here and 5d7d is type of hand we wanna play to stack someone this early. I mean I’m fine with folding this utg but if table is standard passive table where people aren’t going to 3bet correctly and just flat.... in always opening 3x here. I would advise you should be super confident in your postflop game if you are going to open this utg. You are going to generally see a flop multi-way oop so be ready for a lot of check folds opening these hands.

I think turn is a bet here with flush/straight draw. I would Cbet smaller like 1/3rd pot or a little more and bet bigger on the turn (like 50-80% of pot prolly). As played, I’m terrible but I’m fine with folding the river. Not really sure what you beat that is betting and being called here. Even if you have best hand, I would just be fine with mucking. You might be good here but a bet and call on such a dangerous board, me no think your flush is good here.

I think not betting turn here is pretty bad. You can bluff a lot of rivers if you somehow get 1 fold on turn and can lead for a close to pot size bet on river.

There were several bad conclusions made in this thread.

With 75s is in his range preflop, that does not mean he has a 30% EP preflop range. I can get to 75s in 18% range.

From this position, 12% is the standard opening range.

You cannot play by hand charts. Just because 75s is not in your hand charts does not mean that there will never ever be a situation where it is just right to open that much, even from EP. No one even asked OP why? I opened 54o utg before and my coach asked me why? He did not just come out and say "no, wrong. Too loose." The why is important. Whether you agree with the why is one thing.

If there is no reason that OP decided to open this hand other than it is in his normal range, then OK, he has a leak. But maybe the players who never, ever think about opening 75s from EP has a leak as well and are leaving some chips on the table.

My why on opening 54o UTG was that my image was tight. I haven't played a hand in a while. The player in the BB was the ATM/fish, and I haven't had any opportunities to play heads up with her yet. I was attempting to isolate the ATM/fish in the BB, expecting my image and position to get respect from the rest of the table, and take control of the hand.

I'm not so opposed to the OP opening 75s if he had good reason to do so. None of you were sitting in the game. You don't know the circumstances, nor did you even inquire.

So I can say these statements are true:

1) 75s is generally too weak to open from EP; and
2) There are definitely exceptions where it is correct to venture an open with a hand not in your "standard hand chart."

Man, these tournament forums are really bad nowadays. Keep regging tournaments if you think 75ss is an open in the UTG’s. I promise not to berate you at the tables.

I tried to get some justification out of these guys, but there is no possible justification so alas none was given.

I even put some admittedly very rough numbers in there to show just how tall an order it is to make this a +EV. But I tried.

Instead, all we've gotten (from you too) are fuzzy, hand-wavey, borderline magical thinking responses with no rigor or justification whatsoever.

Some try to argue that being deep changes things--it does. To our detriment! When we make a flush and 400bb get poured into the middle, we're not gonna come out ahead with our almost-surely nut low flush. V's who willingly pay $5k for a buy in generally aren't that stupid. They will have it when the big money goes in, and we simply cannot have it by virtue of how ****ty this hand is to include in your opening range from UTG at at 9-max. The situation is even worse when we make any hand that isn't specifically a nut straight on an unpaired, unflushed board.

We are never, ever, EVER in a million years gonna come out ahead when big money goes in short of the ~1% (maybe less frequent) of outcomes that involve us absolutely smashing the board AND V's not also smashing it with their hole cards that are almost surely better than ours. This hand is textbook RIO. Go ahead a try to argue otherwise, you or anyone else who suggested it's ever ok (meaning +EV--that is all that matters and all that ever will matter) to open this hand UTG at a full-ring table.

Our most likely outcomes are as follows:

~35-50% of the time (we feel the full brunt of V's 3betting ranges bc we have no blockers to it) we instafold to a 3bet. Good luck playing this hand any other way in a 3bet pot. I'd venture to say you're a massive fish if you continue vs a 3bet here.

The times we do get to the flop we mostly x/f our 7-high, no draw, no blocker, no hope hand. This i made even worse by that fact that, being deep, we deny much less equity preflop than if we were shallower--V's are getting a great price in terms of IO to flat pre and see the flop IP.

I honestly can't believe what I'm reading in this thread, and what makes it so much worse is how lazy everyone is being in not justifying their spewy, button-clicking ways


PS: Whatever chat you're looking at is flat out wrong.



I also did ask why OP chose now, of all times, to open this hand. He still hasn't popped in to tell us this earth-shattering revelation (hint: there will be none, because he was clicking buttons in this hand along with everyone else saying we should open here)

lol

Mostly what eggs said, really.

75s is bad UTG 9-max - I don't care if we're really deep or not. In $5K tournaments against fields where we assume the population is pretty good and we don't have a ton of reads, we should be erring on betting less frequently, not more. I've seen some charts from players I respect that suggest we can maybe open 87s or 76s UTG sometimes, but let's save those hands for lineups that are weak.

I don't mind getting out of line occasionally, but I think UTG preflop in a $5K is not the place.

As to the river, it's such a weird spot. I guess UTG+1 has 77-TT a bunch trying to get value from A-high (and shouldn't have that much 4x or Jx) and BB probably c/r boats so I can certainly argue for a call considering how little we'd have to be good.

Serious question. Is this ok in a 200 dollar tourny where the play is going to be much worse? I honestly don’t think this is that bad so deep.

I can see how fold is probably prudent choice especially since going to play oop nyltiway a lot with a hand that is easily dominated and will lead to some trick post flop spots. Again, I still like open 3x over a limp from utg with this type of hand. Atleast hero is opening this and not limp calling I guess.

Don't get me wrong. I never said he should open here.

All I stated was that while is should mostly be folded, there are exceptions and situations that would make opening 75s correct.

Any time you say always or never in poker you are probably wrong.

Ya I was actually gonna make this point but once fish start making snide comments I stop putting any effort info a thread beyond one liners

Lol is your takeaway from this thread that people sit down at a table with no information and indiscriminately open 75s UTG+1?

I mean to be fair, if I saw you and people who I knew played poker the same way you do in the 6 spots behind, then I suppose I'd have to consider opening 75s. But it's not a standard open and no one is arguing that.