Hi everyone, I had a question regarding taking a -EV Push before it's too late and you have no fold equity left. Unfortunately, SnG Wizard doesn't take into account for this, so I haven't been able to practice this aspect of SnGs. I read in moshman's book, that usually you don't want to get blinded lower than 3 times the BB, so sometimes it's just better to push with ATC.

So usually, I've been pushing sometimes at around 3 to 4 to 5 BBs even though I know it's going to say it was - EVs. I was wondering if anyone had a "magic number" when to push before it's too late. I know there are lots of things to take into consideration, number of players, stacks, who you're pushing into and your hole cards. But the general idea is, I prefer to push and have some fold equity and possibly bad beat ppl if they call rather than call with garbage (most the time) when people push at me.

Here are a few hands, I was struggling with:


Full Tilt Poker $2 + $0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t150/t300 Blinds - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

CO: t1070 3.57 BBs
BTN: t2730 9.10 BBs
SB: t4375 14.58 BBs
BB: t3830 12.77 BBs
Hero (UTG): t1495 4.98 BBs

Pre Flop: (t450) Hero is UTG with 8 A
Hero requests TIME, Hero raises to t1495 all in, 4 folds

This hand here, if we fold here, next hand we're going to be down to 4BBs, then following 3.5BBs so i decided to push here.

Hand #2




Full Tilt Poker $2 + $0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t250/t500 Blinds - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

SB: t2600 5.20 BBs
BB: t4560 9.12 BBs
Hero (CO): t2300 4.60 BBs
BTN: t4040 8.08 BBs

Pre Flop: (t750) Hero is CO with 8 9
Hero requests TIME, Hero raises to t2300 all in, 2 folds, BB calls t1800

Flop: (t4850) T Q 5 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Turn: (t4850) K (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: (t4850) 4 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Pretty much same situation here. I'm the short stack here and about to take another blind hit.


Hand #3



Full Tilt Poker $2 + $0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t120/t240 Blinds - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

BB: t2531 10.55 BBs
Hero (UTG): t948 3.95 BBs
MP: t1890 7.88 BBs
CO: t1038 4.33 BBs
BTN: t5701 23.75 BBs
SB: t1392 5.80 BBs

Pre Flop: (t360) Hero is UTG with 6 K
Hero requests TIME, Hero raises to t948 all in, 5 folds


Hand #4

Full Tilt Poker $2 + $0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t150/t300 Blinds - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

UTG: t1800 6 BBs
Hero (MP): t885 2.95 BBs
CO: t8655 28.85 BBs
BTN: t605 2.02 BBs
SB: t625 2.08 BBs
BB: t930 3.10 BBs

Pre Flop: (t450) Hero is MP with 3 A
1 fold, Hero raises to t885 all in, 2 folds, SB calls t475 all in, 1 fold

Flop: (t1550) 3 5 4 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Turn: (t1550) 5 (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: (t1550) 7 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Hand #5


Full Tilt Poker $2 + $0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t120/t240 Blinds - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

BTN: t1505 6.27 BBs
SB: t1990 8.29 BBs
BB: t1670 6.96 BBs
Hero (UTG): t1075 4.48 BBs
CO: t7260 30.25 BBs

Pre Flop: (t360) Hero is UTG with 8 A
Hero requests TIME, Hero raises to t1075 all in, 2 folds, SB raises to t1990 all in, 1 fold

Flop: (t2390) 8 4 2 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Turn: (t2390) 9 (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: (t2390) A (2 players - 2 are all in)


Hand #6:

Full Tilt Poker $2 + $0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t100/t200 Blinds - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

Hero (BTN): t995 4.97 BBs
SB: t2980 14.90 BBs
BB: t1510 7.55 BBs
CO: t8015 40.08 BBs

Pre Flop: (t300) Hero is BTN with 9 8
1 fold, Hero raises to t995 all in, 2 folds

Hand #7

Full Tilt Poker $2 + $0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t100/t200 Blinds - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

BTN: t1015 5.08 BBs
SB: t4200 21 BBs
BB: t2870 14.35 BBs
Hero (UTG): t840 4.20 BBs
CO: t4575 22.88 BBs

Pre Flop: (t300) Hero is UTG with 9 7
Hero raises to t840 all in, 3 folds, BB calls t640

Flop: (t1780) K Q 3 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Turn: (t1780) 5 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: (t1780) 3 (2 players - 1 is all in)


Anyways I have a few more, but I didn't want to clog up the message too much. Thanks for your time, any feedback would be appreciated

they all seem fine to me.

ya I think they all look good. I've been trying to work on when to make -ev shoves as well. Ive come up with the general conclusion that if I have 6bb or less and Im about to hit the big blind and Im the shorty I will shove very wide because I would rather take a shot at getting a fold than being blinded off. Also when you get called you will be around 35% to win most of the time.

Thanks sippin and thenextlevel1.

So even at 6 BB you're usually willing to push quite wide? Obviously it depends on how many opponents are left in the game. The more players left, the more hands we get to see.

Does anyone else start pushing wider down to 6BB? Like i said i've been pushing more at 5bb, 4bbs but maybe this is a little too late.