We are about 150 from the chump change at this point. If I figure to be ahead here, what is the best play? Player is aggressive raising FTA in this spot. However, he does not like to be rr and will reshove with a monster and simply call with a very wide range (per past action). My image is pretty solid tag, but I do not think he is capable of thinking about this.

Your thoughts? What do you like best? I believe calling in this spot is atrocious, but that is me.

Poker Stars $5.00+$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t400/t800 Blinds + t100 - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+2: t12965 M = 6.17
MP1: t46538 M = 22.16
MP2: t59221 M = 28.20
CO: t49474 M = 23.56
BTN: t19843 M = 9.45
Hero (SB): t30911 M = 14.72
BB: t18064 M = 8.60
UTG: t18111 M = 8.62
UTG+1: t7103 M = 3.38

Pre Flop: (t2100) Hero is SB with Q A
5 folds, CO raises to t2400, 1 fold,djrion???

edit
not that this matters too much, but this is the 5 2r+1a

Im not sure what raising "FTA" means? Havent heard that one yet....


If hes been really agro than i 3bet/call, if he flats when you 3bet than reaval post. Flatting here and playing oop when your gonna miss most flops is pretty bad.

first to act = FTA


i'm interested most in:

shoving>3bet OR

3bet>shoving

obv playing OOP is pathetic IMO

i think 3bet shoving 37bbs is pretty bad unless you know hes calling with far worse than AQ. your usually folding out all of his range that doesnt crush you by shoving this deep . if you 3bet i think you need to 3bet with the intention of calling a 4bet shove by villain or 5bet shoving if villian 4bets. 3bet folding is bad imo.

3bet and give villain a chance to 4bet shove light and hang himself or if he flats just play post, your deep enough you can still c-bet fold otf.

just wanted to make sure that my thinking wasnt off. thanks for the confirmation

mountainbum is pretty bad

fair enough, but would you mind writing a bit more letting me know why?

Yeah this depends a lot on the villain's image, if he has been aggro, stealing in position on multiple streets etc. then I would 3 bet/shove. 37bbs is a bit too much to be open shoving and even if he is tight you could still very well be ahead of his range here.

i never mind people giving me **** on here, or calling me out if i say something stupid but dont post a d-bag one liner and not include your thoughts as to why my line of thinking was "pretty bad".








o, and yah gtfo noob and all that....

3-betting is much better than shoving, considering you have almost 40 BBs with a hand that will very rarely be called by something worse. That said, you are OOP and need to take control of the hand if you want to win, so I imagine a raise of ~8K with the intention of betting, maybe shoving a lot of flops will do the trick.

people do it all the time in this forum like they are too good to actually give a response...shhhhh...it's a secret

the standard play here is call

when you do the ev of this you are ahead of his range and in fact ahead of any range as AQ is at the top of the deck and is never far behind any range so if you flat call you play the pot OOP which ev-wise is equal to villains ev or even slightly ahead...if you think he's opening light you can RR too which is fine but the size of the RR has to be precise...a lot of donks will min 3bet oop here which will show a net loss even thought they don't know it so make your 3bet size big enough to make flatting a mistake but small enough that you are not committed on flops you don't like

seems like a 3bet/ shove any flop spot unless we hit hard.

well, actually we are probably a bit deep. so probably raise like 2.6xthe original raise size. and bet/call any good flops for you like 10J, KJ, Qx, Ax, etc...

for once i agree with unrealzeal, just call. Bet heavily when the Ace comes or queen high flop.From your description of villain, You are too deep to 3bet shove.. RR he 4bet shoves u have to fold, thats just spew.RR and he flats = inflated pot and you're OOP with a flop that misses you 2/3 of the time.
i would imagine:
Flat>reraise > 3betshove

Take a look at my previous post. Did you miss 3 of your quotes? You say flatting is bad, shoving is bad, 3bet/fold is bad..so with the exception of villain flatting your 3bet are you saying 3bet with intention of calling for your entire stack is the only right play? based on what you said folding pre would be better than flatting, shoving, and 3bet/fold since folding is 0ev by default, and that statement is wrong since villain is a lag on co seat.

Flatting here is completely fine. if villain is bad as op described then you want to see a flop. folding when you miss flop is fine when you have over 30 bbs since you're not desperate to double up. also, considering bb is short-stacked, if he had a same read as op on the co villain he will shove with wider range when hes faced with late pos raise and a flatter in front. this itself makes flatting +ev.

Anyways on my last post I wasn't necessary saying your line was bad. I was just referring to your post where you were saying "flatting is bad, shoving is bad, 3betting is bad.." so don't take it personal.

I think you misunderstood what i said, and basically quoted my post in different parts and took it out of context.

I said that i thought flatting villians raise is bad.

I said that 3bet shoving here was bad because were to deep and fold out everything but hands that crush us.

I said 3betting (to say 6800) and folding is bad.

So I would elect to 3bet (to say 6800) and call a shove, or if villian 4bets (without shoving) after we 3bet than to 5bet shove.

If after we 3bet (to say 6800 or less) and villian flats we can then re aval otf and see what happens....

I dont usually flat with big hands oop against aggressive players so that i may fold most flops to save chips.

Thanks for your reply, nothing personal taken just wanted a reply from you.

shove pre imo

why?

7250/call

I'd bump it a little big like 8.5K and then shove any flop.

this is great stuff here.

are you saying calling while playing the pot OOP in this example is only giving up a slight bit of ev? since, we presume he is opening fairly wide, the cost of playing OOP does not cost me enough equity to fall below his range? or at least, minimally, we are neutral?

i would consider this a conservative type of play, but do not discredit that my original thinking might be flawed. i presume, that we are trying to keep the pot small so that whatever happens on further streets can be kept to a minimum (unless monsters flop). am i off base with your thinking here?

when are you 3betting vs calling in this spot is the last question i will pose?

3bet/calling is fine too like i said, AQ is never far behind any range but as far as straight ev calling is fairly standard as AQo is always callable from the small blind to any raise even UTG

in fact it is the minimum hand you need to flat call any raise from the SB...you can flat call AJs against LP raises or loose raises but technically speaking AJo is not callable from the small blind (AJs may be callable i'm not really sure it prob depends on position of OR)

AQo has multiway odds and HU odds so when you flat call you expect the BB to flat as well since his odds are good to play so you have the strongest hand but are OOP to two players and if you do the math on it (it's complicated and i am really just making a lot of assumptions so bare with me) all of the three players are equal which is fine because you are a better player than them and will outplay them postflop

if you think he is raising with a lot of aces (like some people will always raise their acese in LP and some won't) then it's better to 3bet pre because one of your aces is gone and that gives the bb a slight advantage so you can 3bet to like 2.5-3x (a little more OOP than you would IP to compensate for positional disadvantage) but you have to call if he shoves on you and you are going to be playing a guess game post flop for a bigger pot so I think calling is the best play readless to keep the pot small until you hit your hand

or you can just shove pre which is fine too

so the upshot is that calling, 3betting for value, or just shoving are all ok, but in a readless situation there is nothing wrong with calling as it will show probably the most profit overall

+1

I'd just 3bet/sigh call a shove, and then get it in on any flop. It's also cool that against described villain we don't have to be that balanced, when we hit the flop hard we can let him hang himself and bluff with his random stuff that missed flop. Usually when people call 3bets too light they also like to bluff against a missed cbet.

So 3bet like 8-8,5k (so you won't have a hugely unnatural shove) -> get it in on any board, depending on the texture a cr might be best on the flop.

I call here every time. At this level the players suck post flop, so when you hit you have huge implied odds, and obviously when you don't you can still cbet/fold. If you 3bet there is almost nothing in his range that you're ahead of, while postflop you can scare away lots of pps.

How do you cbet after flatting pre?