My ranges are not optimistic at all, a lot of people will fold to the 3-bet with A2s/A3s/A7s, and will shove AQ/AJ and will have even less Ax than that in their range.

But I never said we should never just c-f, often it makes sens. But the math is the math... We just have to considerer what is our opponents ranges and what are they doing with it and it can't be a 100% thing. The all point is that when we 3-bet and check Axx we are repping KK so we induce bluffs, and for exemple against someone who plays way too many hands and never fold to 3-bets and bluffs all the time c-f just doesn't make sens.

If you are telling me that you think guys are regularly calling a 15 bb squeeze with hands like K6s, 45s, JTo, or even hands like 89s and KQo, then yes, IMO your ranges are overly optimistic. Also, if you believe that you will regularly see that guy then run a multi-street bluff at you, I would say that is overly optimistic as well.

Every now and then some guy will call your squeeze with a trash hand. And every now and then, that guy will run a multi street bluff at you. But every now and then (+) every now and then (=) not very often.

I was refering to a spot in general where we squeeze and get 2 callers, not specifically 15bbs squeeze 50bbs deep, in that precise spot ranges should be tighter but what is a reasonable range to flat a 15bbs squeeze really ? They should probably 4-bet or fold so flat in itself looks somewhat marginal and it's not that straightforward to put them on a precise range. The guy who flats ATo is obviously completly terrible and will have KQo and random stuff 100%.

Also c-c flop does not mean we believe V is going for a multi street bluff and we're never folding. It can often be a 1 street bluff, when we c-c we should have slowplays so they can't just barrel anything and if they do we have the reasonable option to fold the bottom of our range and move on.

The thing is also that in some of those spots where we might want to cf we can go for 1/4 pot c-bet with 100% of our range because we need that to work 20% of the time (not optimal with KK obv but taking the FE vs what we beat is better than being bluffed).

You just called flop to let him keep bluffing?

etc etc

Hello guys. I don't want to seem an Ahole, but all this talk of villains ranges; equity, equity denial and all that is ****e in this situation. You have 2 obviously idiotic fish calling with idiotic hands (ATo lol). Against dingbats such as this you don't balance your range or expect them to think about any more than their own 2 cards. An ace flopped in a multiway pot against 2morons and you don't have one. When one moron bets.......fold, and it's not even close.