I've been working a lot on breaking out of my old weak-tight mindset and developing a more aggressive approach to the game. I've been focusing on getting comfortable with wider 3-betting, flop x/raises, and double/triple barreling. The problem is that I don't get many opportunities to play MTTs because I'm a recreational player, so I don't get enough practice working on these moves. My study/play ratio is probably something like 90/10.

STTs are more convenient but they don't provide a good training ground for MTTs because the format lends itself much more to nitty ABC play. So I was wondering if cash games would be a good substitute. Cash is more similar to MTTs than STTs are, so maybe cash old be a good training ground for the aggressive moves I want to practice.

Thoughts?

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Is that due to time or bank roll?

Time. I play in a local home game league twice/month and might get time to play a handful online MTTs over the month. Not nearly enough volume to work on my game properly.

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You have to play much different ranges in cash games due to rake and lack of ante. However if you still chose to go for cash games for practice purposes, you should buy in with shorter stack, because it is rather rare to play 100bbs deep in mtts.

18+man sngs seem like the best choice to practice for mtts, as these have all the stacksizes, antes that mtts have, plus a lot of ICM spots, bubbles, final tables, etc.

STTs can be very beneficial too. You can learn a lot about ICM and short handed play. And i strongly disagree with the "nitty and ABC" part. I mean surely, that is ONE way to beat those

I wouldn't be doing it to be profitable at cash, only to practice moves in a similar format. But that's an interesting point about buying in short.

I'm very comfortable with shortstack play from playing so many STTs in my past. It's the deeper stack and middle stage stack size plays that I want to work on, and you just don't get those opportunities in STTs or 18-mans. You only start with 75bb and the blinds climb quickly; and the impact of ICM throughout makes them very different from MTTs. It's just not a good format for opening up your game and working on aggressive moves (though it is a fantastic format for working on 10-20bb stack play).


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Guess you just need to make more time for online mtt to trial this process of thought.

How come you can only play such little amount?

I am also limited to playing time to once or twice a week but then i am able to have a full session.

Full time job, 2 busy kids who often need to be driven or picked up from somewhere. So my MTT time is limited to weekends, and I often find I don't have 4-6 hours of uninterrupted time during the day. I'm not young anymore so I can't stay up until 4am and then function the next day.

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Well I think if you want to train MTT deepstack play the best way to learn this is to, yes, play MTT deepstack play. Cash and SnGs is just another game.

I would advice to just play the weekends but do it in a fully conscience way. So open up 2 tables max. Pay attention when you are on the button. How often is the cut off opening in his positon? Is the HJ opening wide? Are they folding to a 2,5x 3bet. Or do you need it to make 3x? Ask yourself a question. With what range of hands is a nit opening in the CO. What hands would call if you make it 2,5x. What hands will continue if you cbet?

Furthermore. Look at the people at your table. Who are calling the flop but fold to most barrels? Just look at the hand you just played ingame. Open up the replayer and think what you could have done different to make more chips or loose less.

I think that is by far the best way to improve your game.

I just tried the experiment playing 10 cent snap on 888. I bought in full but didn't reload as I dropped to replicate shorter tournament stacks. It was quite liberating to be aggressive without the threat of busting out, so I think it is a good way to develop an aggressive mindset for MTTs. I was 3-betting like crazy and doing very well in that regard but ended up losing 2 buyins thanks to a couple of reckless plays and a KK<AJ hand against a shorter stack.

I don't think fast fold cash is the best choice though because it's 6-max, people tend to play a bit nittier, and you can't develop reads on players. Next time I'll fire up a couple of regular full ring cash tables and see how it goes.

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The answer for most of us is more volume but for you that is not the answer.

For me the 180s on stars (3.50r) is your best bet... they last max 2.5 hours but from reading your posts it seems you play on 888 and I am not familiar with their offerings.

These were the only type of game I played before they started raking the rebuy + add ons and I found them so beneficial for my mtt game, as have a high number of other mtt players.

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The dynamics of a cash game are so different that I don't know how beneficial it would be to practice MTT skills there

Whilst you may be deeper stacked, that's pretty much where the similarities end because even if you are treating the cash game as an MTT your opponents are not. They can afford to, and should, follow slim +EV situations knowing that they can top up on the many occasions that their hand doesn't get there, in ways that wouldn't be as appealing even in early stages of an MTT.

As clapclap correctly points out the rake and lack of antes are also significant. There's no Gap Concept in cash games either

I'd either look to play MTTs and improve there, or consider specialising in cash games instead as it seems to fit your availability better. I can certainly understand your time constraints tho, I think most of us on here would love to have more time to play and can sympathise

I moved over to 888 a while ago for a change of scenery but it might be worth putting some money back on Stars just to increase the options.

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Okay I caved, I'm downloading Stars and putting some money back there. At least that should give me some more options for when I do have time to play.

Imo i think you should play the game at where you are the best. But if u dont have time play cash daily and when u have time, play mtt.

It's easy to find time to play cash, much harder for MTTs.

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Playing cg will be vary beneficial for your post flop game as whole. However if you want to work on small part of your game, like playing 3b spots, just start experimenting with them in the MTTs you get to play. You will probably bust out of lots of tournaments earlier than before but after some time, you will get comfortable at those spots and it will become strong part of your game.

I would advice you to mix it up, think about your play, try to do the opposite of what you would usually do and then go from there. Also, do a lot of analyze after your session

Or get a coach/study group

Studying and practicing cash games will help you learn some tricks, tactics, and strategies that will be beneficial in the early deep pre-ante levels of MTTs. I think it's a very good idea to practice and play cash. You'll learn things that some decent MTTers won't know. Also don't buy in short, because short MTT play involves antes and also usually ICM. You can only really practice deep stack early play with cash.

So far the experiment is going really well. I only had $7 in my 888 account so I've been two-tabling 2NL and I've been running over the tables. It's given me a lot of practice with 3-betting and barreling, as well as x/raises. And by not auto-reloading I'm also forcing myself to play shorter at times to replicate MTT spots.

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