Another respondent not answering the question of how to respond to the villain's raise.

Lot this is funny. I am going to start limping 15bbs in early position with Ace 8 and then start playing 'street by street' poker where I consider bet/folding my top pair and nut flush draw that I just flopped.

You cannot fold on that flop with 15bbs.

usual fold pre is a bad joke but its true here lol, as played i dont think there is a bad line you can take on the flop (except folding at any point), c/c c/r b/c b/r are all fine, just get it in in any way.

There you go, Tony. This is your answer.

Fold pre.

Tt: the thoughts of a man who has yet to feel what a real cooler is like

alternative itt:
1. limp ace rag ep
2. ???
3. 7500% roi

look, when you get into this situation post, it helps to have a few little post it stickies next to your computer. When this happens just put one over the call and fold buttons, pretend they don't exist, you don't need them. Just play with the slidy thingy some and then hit raise.

Villain could be doing this with worse flush draws, straight draws, striaght flush draws, overpairs, two pairs, sets, maybe even doing it as a random bluff because he thinks your flop bet is full of it, and you have at least some decent equity against those hands... A diamonds is almost always a winner and an ace or an 8 usually is as well, plus sometimes you have the beat hand even unimproved... There is no reason to fold

btw fold pre

street poker ITT... street by street poker that is.

as above, fold pre call now. pokerstove.com

limping pre can't be that far from a correct play because we don't have the stack to raise fold it's just that when someone raises behind us we don't have quite the implied odds we need and if we raise pre we are almost always crushed by a rr but we can't r/f we can only r/c and folding this hand with the blinds moving up soon doesn't seem all that correct either so maybe shove pre is the play but anyway limp can't be that bad

if anyone needed more proof that its a fold pre, there you go

i hope that OP will post his screen name so that we can marvel in his 7500% ROI over more than ONE THOUSAND tournaments.

Its not a secret. Its ElT007 on PStars (the second letter is lower case "L") Some of us regs in Beginners Forum railed Tony on Saturday as he took down a $27 18-man SnG.

If this spot troubles you I recommend that you uninstall all poker clients on your computer and donate the money you'd be wasting to a worthy charity.

not sure whether to post lol or level...

This is such a trainwreck...why post a hand if you don't want to listen to anyones advice? As stated multiple times limping here is horrendous, but once you get this flop I really don't see how you can possibly post this hand, were you hoping to flop quads before putting the money in?

quoted for sustainable roi

wow what a giant douche

raise 750 pre. as played, c/f flop.

hof post, hof thread

For real.

TTT (or T3) is such a legend in Beginners Forum that he has his own containment thread http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...thread-732101/

We (in Beginners) also have a weekly game (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...-games-287133/), and while we were playing, we thought it would be fun to see what Tony was up to. Unfortunately I don't have hand histories, but iirc, there were a couple of hands late where Tony sucked out with flushes where the 4th suited card hit the board on the river.

I like a raise preflop here although limping is ok too. Folding preflop is bad IMO with this stack, you must make use of your last remaining opportunity to do something other than push or fold to try and get yourself into a position where you will have more strategic options preflop. Flop is boring as obviously you're playing for all your chips, the only thing to talk about is possibly how to get the money in. I think your line is best.

EDIT: Since folding to the raise on the flop is so atrocious I will assume you're asking whether it's better to flat the raise. No, pushing is clearly best.

I'll bet you limon is not folding A8s preflop here.

this is actually an interesting pf spot because not limping BECAUSE your stack is short is counterintuitive and most likely wrong...it's on a short stack when you can't afford a raise is when you want to limp hands rather than raise

At the risk of leveling myself...

What good does a limp do? It gives us a chance to see a cheap flop, but when raised we have to make a decision between limp/call and limp/fold.

Now, when we are deep, say 100bbs deep, and we limp/fold, we bleed away 1% of our stack. This is not major problem, especially because some hands we might be limping (like low sc and pp hands) have huge implied odds if effective stacks are deep as well.

Now what if we are 50bbs deep? Now we are limp/folding 2% of our stack.

25bbs deep? 4% of our stack.

You have the relationship backwards. As our stack gets shorter it costs us more overall to limp/fold, thus making it a worse play as stacks get shorter. Also our stack (and therefore effective stacks) get shorter we have less implied odds to play our hands, meaning there is less to gain from seeing a flop cheaply.


You're right that you "can't afford a raise" on a short stack... it's not that you can't afford a raise, it's that you can't afford a raise/fold except under very rare circumstances. You have to make a decision to either raise/call or just open fold.


Now so far I have just been waxing hypothetical about poker without regard to this specific hand, but in this case, blinds are going up next hand and so we're effectively at ~13bbs plus antes in play so our M is below 7, you are either raise/call or fold. You can argue about what to do if smoothcalled (i prefer shoving most flops) but that's unarguably the correct play in this spot. We just can't afford to raise to ~700 and then fold ~20% of our stack this hand. It'd be better to race even if we're behind and hope we double to a manageable stack size. We can't afford to limp/fold because it is almost 6% of our stack we are folding, and if we're calling a raise (which is usually going to be around 800) we might as well just shove pre even with no fold equity. Plus limp/call and limp/fold both are problematic because they portray our range as weak (which it is, but we don't want to give away that info in this spot) and they take away our chance to steal, plus raising makes it harder shove on us so we want to be raising to making it harder for them to shove on us

Just lock this up to save the little bit of dignity OP has left...

yeah i edited my post because I thought we had a different stack situation than we actually do and i don't think a limp is as good a play as i thought at first but if i had like 1800 or about 9 bb's i might consider a limp here but i'm never folding if someone raises behind me

so yeah i see what you are saying as far a % of stack so maybe my argument is incorrect but it just seems to me if you can't afford a raise or worse, you won't get action if you raise, a limp is a play you can put into your arsenal

the reason is because when i'm short i want the pot to go multiway as it's a lot easier to get back in the game by tripling than by doubling even if it occurs less often