Late in an FTP Massive field 26dollar tourney but still 66 players left.

I read the utg players min raise as weak and feel that he will fold to my shove a good amount. I am not sure about the other players call. I decide to roll the dice and make a non standard min 3bet with the intention of jamming any flop. I know they will at least call this if not move in for me.

Full Tilt Poker Game #21224332443: $28,000 Guarantee (163360809), Table 91 -

1200/2400 Ante 300 - No Limit Hold'em - 2:04:57 ET - 2010/05/30
Seat 1: yenomrtgllwi (75,268)
Seat 2: aleno18 (50,372)
Seat 3: HammerU173 (34,888)
Seat 4: wlltg2 (89,087)
Seat 5: LastSkull (31,285)
Seat 6: MrMudd76 (105,529)
Seat 7: I EAT BLONDY (55,908)
Seat 8: JksRbetter (48,324)
Seat 9: muffin2211 (41,084)
yenomrtgllwi antes 300
aleno18 antes 300
HammerU173 antes 300
wlltg2 antes 300
LastSkull antes 300
MrMudd76 antes 300
I EAT BLONDY antes 300
JksRbetter antes 300
muffin2211 antes 300
aleno18 posts the small blind of 1,200
HammerU173 posts the big blind of 2,400
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HammerU173 [Ah As]
wlltg2 raises to 4,800
LastSkull folds
MrMudd76 folds
I EAT BLONDY folds
JksRbetter folds
muffin2211 folds
yenomrtgllwi calls 4,800
aleno18 folds
HammerU173 has 15 seconds left to act
HammerU173 raises to 10,800
wlltg2 calls 6,000
yenomrtgllwi calls 6,000
*** FLOP *** [5s 7c 8h]
HammerU173 bets 23,788, and is all in
wlltg2 folds
yenomrtgllwi calls 23,788

perfect

Full Tilt Poker $28,000 Guarantee No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t1200/t2400 Blinds + t300 - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: t75268 M = 11.95
SB: t50372 M = 8.00
Hero (BB): t34888 M = 5.54
UTG: t89087 M = 14.14
UTG+1: t31285 M = 4.97
UTG+2: t105529 M = 16.75
MP1: t55908 M = 8.87
MP2: t48324 M = 7.67
CO: t41084 M = 6.52

Pre Flop: (t6300) Hero is BB with A A
UTG raises to t4800, 5 folds, BTN calls t4800, 1 fold, Hero raises to t10800, UTG calls t6000, BTN calls t6000

Flop: (t36300) 5 7 8 (3 players)
Hero bets t23788 all in, UTG folds, BTN calls t23788

Are you serious or being sarcastic zeal?

In this spot I normally ship all day buy with the reads I gave I decided to make this play. The second player drilled a set on me so I am pretty down about it and not sure if I am being results orientated. I know that I gave him odds to hit a set but being pretty shallow is it ok to invite 3 way action with my aces here?

shove pre

why do you think thats better? Obv you can say so you don't get a set drilled on you...but it seems like one of them will hit a pair more often and get it in with that.

If you knew you gave him the odds to setmine against you then you played it wrong.
I can see your reasoning behind your play, but if you chose to see a flop with your AA three handed and lost, just move on and have no regret.
Chances are BUT would have called you if you had pushed, and still lost. That would have been more upsetting to you.

i'm being serious..this play is fine

Hi, I am new here, have ghosted for a while, I agree with this line of thinking here, your M is only at 5 and with aces can you really ask for a better spot with a raise and a call. I think you have to push, with the three bet idea, you are only asking for trouble coming to the flop.

this

do u actually realize that if u give somebody the odds to setmine (which u obv didnt if u take the 15:1 implied odds kind of rule) he has to have a pp in his hand and has to hit his set? u r def results orientated cuz, his range doesnt only consist of pps here, its superwide.

I'm not going to say I disagree with this play, but shipping it PF is fine too, in fact against stronger players, it is more deceptive. With your stack size and you are entering the pot with any other hand other than AA, you are supposed to shove. So why advertise AA with what looks like a much stronger play than shoving. If they were paying attention, that play is begging for action.

And yes, I know you have aces and want to maximize here, but the dead money already in the pot is already about 50% of the size of your stack, so just winning that is a considerable increase. FWIW, the first player to call is getting almost 2:1 to call you, so i would expect at least one to come along.

Shove pre, you arent fooling anyone, and you will almost double up. Chances are good one of them calls you since you are short

It's fine, just run better. I like raising a bit more given the cold call behind UTG's raise, but you really do want to invite action not discourage it. Shoving is also fine. Losing is unacceptable.

I do realize this....and that is what I am getting at. Against there entire ranges and with my stack as small as it is it might be better to just roll the dice here...but;

1) I have 34k and if I shove and it and it folds I add 16k to my stack for 50k risk free.

2) If I make my play and end up playing for stacks with another player I take a shot at an 84k stack with some more risk.

I am not sure how to quantify this and as to which play is better.

thoughts?

Can anyone elaborate on a 15:1 rule for set mining. I know that you need just under 8-1 to hit a set but I have heard of this before.

Thoughts?

[QUOTE=PokerZombie;19251785]Shove pre, you arent fooling anyone/QUOTE]

Like I said against thinking players I would shove this 100 percent of the time. But here I actually do think that I am fooling them. They will probably still put me on a monster (not fooled in that sense) but still be willing to to call and then get it in with top pair anyway on the flop.

Wow....we seem about 50/50 as to if this was a good play or a bad play.

Thanks for all of the responses and I would like to hear some more.

Thoughts?

it takes into account that u do not always get ur stack in when u hit ur set and that u sometimes lose even when u make ur set.

Exactly.

bad play imo, just get it in there pre

15:1 is pure BS with huge direct pot odds pf.

He has 15:1 preflop odds???

No, but getting great odds PF cuts down on the odds you need in the remaing stacks. If you're getting 4.5-5.5 to 1 odds PF, you only need to win a c-bet on average to be a good pf call.

pot is already being contested, jam pre you'll get at least one call. Your bet screams aces, it worked here as you still somehow got action, but I wouldn't make this play. Take the suck out like a man.

Also, hands like AK/AQ even stupid KJ soooted hands that WILL call your shove pre can fold when they whiff the flop the majority of the time.

I think shove pre gets the most value and gets called the widest