Tilt 50/50...deep bizarre KK hand on ugly flop - MTT Poker Strategy

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Tilt 50/50...deep bizarre KK hand on ugly flop

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08-30-2010 , 10:58 PM

ssnyc

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Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 38,129

I mean...can we get a worse flop?

I guess we vamo anyway? even this deep?

Full Tilt Poker The Fifty-Fifty No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t50/t100 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

citizenq (UTG): t3695 36.95 BBs
chriselkins (UTG+1): t3105 31.05 BBs
BangDeBang (UTG+2): t9591 95.91 BBs
Kevin_McCormack (MP1): t3286 32.86 BBs
Hero (MP2): t8820 88.20 BBs
CaseyCoughlan (CO): t3330 33.30 BBs
McGobbler (BTN): t2775 27.75 BBs
jse81 (SB): t9921 99.21 BBs
de la fold (BB): t5609 56.09 BBs

Pre Flop: (t150) Hero is MP2 with K

1 fold, chriselkins raises to t300, BangDeBang raises to t950, 1 fold, Hero raises to t3300, 5 folds, BangDeBang calls t2350

Flop: (t7050) Q

(2 players)
BangDeBang bets t1300, Hero raises to t5520 all in,

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08-30-2010 , 11:02 PM

sunnydunerz

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Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 6,319

fold the flop! hes getting in aa pre and not flatting aq pre either, he has like qq or jj to induce with that sizing so often imo, and we still have tons of bb to work with. your sizing pre is far too large aswell, anywhere from 2-2.5k is good

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08-30-2010 , 11:03 PM

dcm91

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 4,942

nh

prob AA, but what can you do.

edit (in response to sunny) - seriously doubt he donks the flop often enough with QQ/JJ to make folding flop good. agree pre sizing is too large though.

without reads he could just be doing this with dumb **** with AK/AQ so i mean, i'm never folding.

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08-30-2010 , 11:08 PM

mullen

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Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 17,680

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunnydunerz

cant fold given the size of the pot. he can easily have a ******ed AK or AQ, we dont have enough info to know he won't flat those so i think we have to get it in

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08-30-2010 , 11:38 PM

Howtown

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,599

4 bet is too big. 25kish is fine.

Folding KK here in a 4 bet pot is just absurd. The only hand your really losing to is QQ. (highly doubt he flats AA pf and i doubt he'd lead with QQ or JJ here)

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08-30-2010 , 11:41 PM

ssnyc

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Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 38,129

guys...look at position and action...do we think he is folding? if not let's bet as much as he will pay...TBH I just hit pot cause I was lazy

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08-30-2010 , 11:58 PM

paz5050

journeyman

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 291

i think the critique pre is that ur not making the raise size 'inducy' enough or with enough ambiguity as to whether ull ever fold. but a 4bet here looks strong any way u slice it. ****ty flop but dont fold.

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08-31-2010 , 12:32 AM

JohnnyFondue

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Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 17,793

TBH, I like the way you played it.

NH/

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08-31-2010 , 12:58 AM

isuxatpokerbad

2015 WSOP ME Champ

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 7,629

i dont fold cause people in this tourney can have worse but i do agree that is close to the worst flop for you. I'd really rather not see AQJ tho

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08-31-2010 , 01:38 AM

#10

voff voff voff

centurion

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 173

You're clearly committing yourself preflop, so I wouldn't think he would flat your 4bet with AA.

QQ is possible, but doesn't QQ usually just check and let you bet? Same with JJ...

I also hate this flop of course, but theres no way off KK here imo.

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08-31-2010 , 01:57 AM

#11

jon_midas

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,085

looks fine to me, nh, not folding... random spazz factor, etc.

As far as the sizing pre thats fine aswell imo, villain obv has a very strong range, doubt it matters much whether we 4bet to 3.3x or 2.7x. Both look insanely strong to any thinking player. I actually like the larger 3bet pre here as it makes a better pot/stack ratio than a smaller 3bet would.

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08-31-2010 , 02:03 AM

#12

marek_heinz

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Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 13,905

On the flop there is no decision with those stacksizes

Pre is whatever, its obviously good, but I would flat some % of the time to balance like JJ/AKs I would flat there

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08-31-2010 , 03:30 AM

#13

gostatego

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,752

i think shoving is better than your sizing, otherwise id 4 bet smaller. definitely getting it in on any non A flop. with that stack to pot ratio no one donks QQ or JJ.

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08-31-2010 , 09:54 AM

#14

relderretep

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,540

pre a little less. dont fold now.

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08-31-2010 , 10:01 AM

#15

Texas Chuck

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 6,237

Pretty sure ss doesnt have a 4 bet bluff range at 50/100 so this talk of balance and sizing is silly.

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08-31-2010 , 10:54 AM

#16

jon_midas

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,085

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Chuck

Pretty sure ss doesnt have a 4 bet bluff range at 50/100 so this talk of balance and sizing is silly.

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08-31-2010 , 11:26 AM

#17

marek_heinz

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Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 13,905

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Chuck

Pretty sure ss doesnt have a 4 bet bluff range at 50/100 so this talk of balance and sizing is silly.

Yeah, but he does have a coldcalling range imo, which is kinda faceup and tough to play and having an occasional KK+ in there is good

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08-31-2010 , 11:30 AM

#18

Texas Chuck

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 6,237

Quote:

Originally Posted by marek_heinz

Yeah, but he does have a coldcalling range imo, which is kinda faceup and tough to play and having an occasional KK+ in there is good

Id wager he doesnt have a coldcalling range either.

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08-31-2010 , 12:53 PM

#19

ndahlhoff10

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Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,224

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Chuck

Id wager he doesnt have a coldcalling range either.

What about JJ+, AK? Or are you just folding QQ-,AK. 4bet/calling those seems pretty spewy.

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08-31-2010 , 01:03 PM

#20

Texas Chuck

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 6,237

coldcalling QQ/AK seems way worse than folding them or turning them into a 4 bet bluff. With QQ are we really going broke on low flops hoping for AK? And with AK how are we getting paid off post if we hit?

So Fold>>4 bet>flat with AK/QQ imo

Last edited by Texas Chuck; 08-31-2010 at 01:08 PM. Reason: JJ too obv but even eaiser turbo muck

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08-31-2010 , 01:06 PM

#21

suitedacesbaby

adept

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 785

Sometimes I shove pre even that deep I find I get called by worse jj/qq and the odd ak, like if he has aces its going in anyway. Given the action and the way the hand played out I am never folding kk in this situation.

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