people play bad
people don't pay attention
basic rules of thumb

so do we ever need to be opening less than the tops of our range from EP early in an MTT?

note: this pertains to 3K starting stack MTTs in the $22-109 FO range

I tend to open most pairs and suited connectors (67+) from EP until the table convinces me not to...Is this a good idea? Am I really going to hit enough flops where I stack someone to offset the times I either spew bluff or get flatted/floated?

If we just open AK+ and say 1010+ from EP for the first few levels are we sacrificing anything? They say balance is overrated anyway at these levels

wug msmtt?

I'm not quite as nitty as AK/TT+ but I'm pretty nitty in ep, early in mtts. I don't think we sacrifice much nor do I think we'll be exploited very often.

edit. I also think we can get away with just limping the lower pocket pairs on the euro sites, and prob on a lot of midstakes tables on stars/tilt.

the reason i'm opening 22 utg 150bb deep has nothing to do with balance.

the short answer to your question is no, imo.

yup. its cuz im better than the average random (or so i think!) and can outplay them postflop enough where i can show a profit!

hell no

yes it's good to open non-premium b/c the cost is low and the potential payoff is great. e.g. you raise JT/33/76 and flop big then the tourney donks are ready to just "put you on AK" and go to town. It's not like we're going broke when we flop 622 with our 76.

many will sneer at limp/calling little pairs early, but I think it has some merits

you generally get to see the flop for at worst 3xBB and don't get pushed off (unless there's a raise/reraise in which case you lose the min)

lower stakes they won't hand-read it like a bigger buyin tourney

when you call a small raise, they will barrel their stack off when they hit a pair - no bad thing for them to have the betting lead when you have a set

eg you raise 33 from ep, flop A3x and you'll never get 3 streets

of course on the minus side, it's harder to take the pot down when you miss - early with tiny blinds this maybe isn't the end of the world

mixing it up is probably good

Depends on stake, depth of money and how table is playing. I would generally fold ATo/KJo and worse. Probably not folding AQo/AJs, but obviously folding them if 3-bet. Usually, you can profitably play any pp for a raise, but maybe not at tough tables at higher stakes. I also limp some hands, and often the table is limping a lot. Pretty insane to open fold 99/88. If you only play TT+/AK, there are problems postflop if people can read you for a tight range and exploit that to get a fold or extract.

short answer is definitely no.

wtf @ whoever said you cant get 3 streets if you raise up the 33 and flop a 3, your hand is disguised a bit cause no one wants to put you on a set and ffs no one folds the toppest pair

and who says you cant open 98s and barrel their face off/make the nuts

i dont think 2 much about that stuff. i just try to play and adjust to the conditions at the table. if ppl are playing tight im gonna try to jump out and pick up pots to try to get ahead a few bucks and have some breathing room. and visa versa
i have no problem at all raising j9s utg if i think i can find a spot to exploit a guy for a good sized pot

sc's pp's suited A's is a good range from pretty much all positions in early levels. Early stages i usually play like 18/15. late stages i play more like 30/28

30/28 huh?
that loose?
when im playing well im usually running like 23/17
but havent thought much about my disparity from early to late stages. good thing to think about.

but agree w protentials range here

30/28/20 or so... if it sucks to be this loose obv i can play 10/10 or w/e. but i do the most damage and build the most playign this loose. builds me some massive stacks pre ft.

I think some people may be overestimating their abilities. I don't think there is as much an advantage as people think when they are playing 67s out of position even against bad players. I think the positional disadvantage a lot of times negates the edge you think you may have against bad players. The later we are too act the more profitable these hands become but especially pre ante I think you are not picking up as many chips as you might think in spots where you are raising any pocket pair or suited connector from EP.

u balance your range by choosing to do optional plays in equal amounts

all your plays should be +ev like raising 89s EP 150BBs deep is probably +ev, limping low pairs at certain blind levels is +ev, but if you are deep enough you can raise 22 for set value EP....i don't think "balancing" is necessary inasmuch as you should be making +ev plays always, but switching up your optional moves, like for example there is probably not much difference between 3betting and flatting AKs deep stacked so switch it up a lil

Maybe the more correct question for this thread is "how much value is there to a double-up in the first 2-3 levels?"

Because playing hands like 33/A2s/98s in EP at early levels is mainly for the purpose of getting an early double-up off donks who can't hand read and just put you on aces or AK every time.

I still maintain there's value to opening light early, all the regs are sitting back playing 8/6 or whatever and you have the fish to yourself if you're willing to open up (this is basically the same reason I like full-ring cash sometimes, even if there's a 62/11 fish the regs will still sit there and play 11/9 and you can have the fish to yourself).

I don't think there is a correct answer, except playing TT+/AK is pretty bad. Pretty sure playing real tight is losing big oportunities early in mid stakes MTTs these days.

I wouldn't play Axs or marginal unsuited high cards in early position. In general, speculative hands are more valuable than high card hands and position is more important with deep money.

It depends a lot on the table, tournament, and stakes. Are people playing real tight early or are there donks playing big pots? Also, if people are playing really wild postflop, you may want to play some speculative hands, but for some people it may be better to play pretty tight in hand selection, because it is hard to tell if your hand is good with wild action.

I guess it is simply a question of what a profitable opening range would be from EP in these tourneys...Obviously that varies from player to player based on style.

If we say that balance means nothing having a 1010+ and AK+ should be fine because people tend not to fold and we just do not hit our speculative hands enough to justify the cost of an open and C bet/ double barrel.

So maybe a better question is what are people's opening ranges at 10/20 or 15/30 with 3K from EP...do we open 78 suited? 44? QK suited? If we don't are we sacrificing much vs just opening the toppest of our range?

If people aren't folding, why are you cbetting and double-barreling? If they aren't folding, shouldn't we get big value when we hit big?

A lot of the pots are multi-way, so you usually don't want to bluff cbet. Also, you can selectively cbet and maybe barrel certain flops, like A and K high flops that you totally missed.

You can also limp with speculative hands, and it is easy to throw them away preflop or on the flop. Obviously, this has disadvantages, but you don't have to follow a rigid approach of cbetting and barreling all the time.

This is a very good post imo. The part about playing pots with the fish while the mass-multitabling regs are playing tight is why I play LAG early most of the time.

I've been opening MUCH wider early on in low stakes donkaments recently. The reason is that the average player has less than no clue what they are doing on the flop and beyond. I don't do it for balance reasons, I do it because I can stack a bunch of monkeys who think that they have the nuts when the flop middle pair and ace kickers.