Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Tell me how many ways I butchered this hand Tell me how many ways I butchered this hand

02-17-2016 , 03:45 PM
This one has been sticking in my craw for a while...day 1 of $350 buy-in tournament. Second level, blinds 50/100, have about 180BB.

Pre-flop:
Hijack raises to $250.
Action folds to hero in the cutoff with J J who raises to $600
Action folds around to BB (villain, with about 170BB) who raises to $1200
Hijack folds.
Hero calls.

Flop ($2700):
A Q 10
Villain in BB checks.
Hero raises to $1000.
Villian check-raises to $5000.
Hero ????

Note that villiain plays a lot of hands preflop but has shown propensity to fold to post-flop aggression.

So tell me how many ways I butchered this hand:

1. Was I wrong to re-raise out of the cutoff with JJ?
2. Once I got four-bet should I have just released this early in a tournament assuming I'm probably up against no worse than QQ or AK?
3. Once the flop come up all spades and I was checked, should I have just checked back to get a free card?
4. Then once I got myself into trouble and I got raised to $5000, was there any reason to stay in the hand? What would villain be playing here on that flop that they'd be check-raising with?

Thanks for advice. As noted, I'm new to these forums so it seems like I'm wrong about lots of things.

Last edited by tboneparte; 02-17-2016 at 07:24 PM. Reason: pot size
Tell me how many ways I butchered this hand Quote
02-17-2016 , 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgiro
This one has been sticking in my craw for a while...day 1 of $350 buy-in tournament. Second level, blinds 50/100, have about 180BB.

Pre-flop:
Hijack raises to $250.
Action folds to hero in the cutoff with J J who raises to $600
Action folds around to BB (villain, with about 170BB) who raises to $1200
Hijack folds.
Hero calls.

Flop ($2100):
A Q 10
Villain in BB checks.
Hero raises to $1000.
Villian check-raises to $5000.
Hero ????

Note that villiain plays a lot of hands preflop but has shown propensity to fold to post-flop aggression.

So tell me how many ways I butchered this hand:

1. Was I wrong to re-raise out of the cutoff with JJ?
2. Once I got four-bet should I have just released this early in a tournament assuming I'm probably up against no worse than QQ or AK?
3. Once the flop come up all spades and I was checked, should I have just checked back to get a free card?
4. Then once I got myself into trouble and I got raised to $5000, was there any reason to stay in the hand? What would villain be playing here on that flop that they'd be check-raising with?

Thanks for advice. As noted, I'm new to these forums so it seems like I'm wrong about lots of things.
1. Was I wrong to re-raise out of the cutoff with JJ?No
2. Once I got four-bet should I have just released this early in a tournament assuming I'm probably up against no worse than QQ or AK?No
3. Once the flop come up all spades and I was checked, should I have just checked back to get a free card?Depends, but IMHO, No. Good sizing as well.
4. Then once I got myself into trouble and I got raised to $5000, was there any reason to stay in the hand? What would villain be playing here on that flop that they'd be check-raising with?Shove. You have the 2nd nut flush draw, blockers to his potential straight if he has AK, and a 1 outer to the immortal nuts.

If you don't hit, just laugh it off and re-buy. you simply cannot fold this hand now.
Tell me how many ways I butchered this hand Quote
02-17-2016 , 05:08 PM
800-850 pre, x/b flop ffs, as played fold to the x/r, piling is uberspew and you don't have much invested
Tell me how many ways I butchered this hand Quote
02-17-2016 , 07:22 PM
so 3b pre is fine.
Call of 4b is fine, given price and position.

I'm struggling to understand what hand he has that 4bets and then c/rs this really wet flop.

If we put his 4bet range JJ+ AKo+, he unlikely has JJ given your blockers, so what hand is he not c-betting here?

AA, QQ are going to c-bet as is AK without Ks, so I think KsKx is most likely and then possibly AxKs to c/r, and then just an out and out bluff.

Given I'm uber suprised no c-bet, I check and take free card.
I fold to raise.
Tell me how many ways I butchered this hand Quote
02-17-2016 , 09:34 PM
1) No, 3 betting here is fine. Deep stacked and before antes I will call with JJ and QQ often and make decisions post flop before deciding how big of a pot I want to play.

2) No, I would call the 3 bet. Even being way behind, you are getting implied odds to set mine here at the minimum.

3) I think I would check back. You are behind his range here and I'm not sure how many of them you are getting to fold, unless you are willing to empty the clip hoping you can get AK or KK to fold.

4) I can't see folding here. No matter what he has you have outs.

Last edited by jjpregler; 02-17-2016 at 09:42 PM.
Tell me how many ways I butchered this hand Quote
02-17-2016 , 10:13 PM
Ok, here's my thought process.

When I see a 4-bet I immediately think premium hand, although villain was aggressive enough that I could move their range down to maybe 88+, maybe KQ or AQo. That was the justification I made for calling the 4-bet with JJ there, assuming as suggested above that I could set mine or even win the hand with post-flop aggression, as I'd seen villain pushed off of a hand after 4-betting before.

Once the flop came out spades, I was absolutely 100% sure I was seeing a c-bet. I briefly thought about checking back, which I absolutely think was the right play in retrospect. I also screwed up the size of the bet, although that probably means little in the grand scheme of things.

Once I got check-raised, well, this is where I think I might have screwed up but I can understand arguments either way. I should've really narrowed villain's ranges to maybe AQ, AxKs, TT+. At that range I am closer to 35/65 facing a greater than pot size bet. I thought about releasing, but I shoved for two reasons.

1. I thought I was close to 50/50, but in that situation I have to assume I'm probably closer to maybe 35/65 because several of my outs may be counterfeited. Which is just bad pot odds calculation in the moment.

2. I thought I could push a hand off with a shove. In retrospect, what hands am I pushing off with a shove there? AQ? Maybe AK without a spade? Maybe TT? But probably 80% of villain's range that would check-raise in that spot are going to call no matter what.

And here was the other thing...I'd committed, what, 2K? I should've been able to find a fold that early in a tournament even if I thought I was closer to 50/50.

So you can probably guess what happens - villain turns over AA, I don't improve, and I end up crippled. Did find a couple of double-ups to hang around for a while, but didn't get out of day 1.

Thanks for the feedback. As I suspected, not checking back on the flop was probably my downfall. At worst maybe I check-call the turn and decide on the river, which still might have cost me money but wouldn't have crippled me.

Last edited by jpgiro; 02-17-2016 at 10:34 PM.
Tell me how many ways I butchered this hand Quote

      
m