This post is evidence that you are a moron

You should still delete this, there is ZERO evidence in this thread.

i maybe see a min 4bet from a reg once a month

discussing how people play poker or speculating about suspicious play on a strategy forum isnt a big deal imo

You realize there are 2 of your outed 'bots' in this hand.

Haagel you're the idiot here. Even if there is no bot ring or anything going on, its good to be over cautious. If i got accused of being a bot would i be annoyed? No, it is looking out for the integrity of the game.
The guy has provided stats and hands he feels supports his case, so please, shut the **** up

^ @Fix, he's saying was Rick near BOP prize in that hand, hence getting someone else to shove 83o v his JK if they're part of same ring would be a good move for him to get a better BOP score.

I would be annoyed if my stats where made public, that is no integrity of the game.
This topic is a total joke.

I don't play that many hypers but looked into my DB on these guys.

I got Heads Up against RickOneHorn earlier last week. We were both deep for a hyper, ~20BB's deep, and he folded eight straight SB's against me. He finally raised called off KJo on that last one. 1/9 SB VPIP would be a bit strange for a bot. It's a bit strange coming from an early game agro player such as him as well though.

I quickly tried to see if I noticed any bet sizing patterns or tells on the players in the very small sample that I have on them. One thing I noticed is that at least RickOneHorn altered his sizings somewhat based on flop textures and his range strength on those particular flops. I think this would be somewhat difficult to program in a bot.

Ex.....normal cbets are 40% to 45% are wetter, more connected flops but on an A 8 4 rainbow board I found a hand where RickOneHorn bet about 1/3 pot or slightly less.

The four betting strategy is interesting that they all employ.

Anyway, I agree it was probably wrong to call out these players without solid proof but at the very least I'd say you found a group of players that work under the same tutelage.

You may have 11k posts on this forum. That doesnt mean you understand anything about poker. These samples are completely ridiculous, from a large sample of data you're always gonna get these results, and yes these plays are dumb, but most of them are not suspicious.

I am looking at more usefull data than these stats, that is games they played together let me show you what I come up with: http://i.imgur.com/6Xoqhbk.png

So the german (which shouldnt be in this sample AT ALL) plays the most with them, and the others are rarely in eachothers games.
Note that these players are so bad that, for them to gain a good edge, they should work together, yet they arent.

Oh and you would be completely fine with having your stats exposed on some public site you dont know about (lets say pokerstrategy since I imagine you dont have 11k posts there aswell) AND be accused of cheating, well I just can't believe you or you are very idiotic to not see this cant be good for you in any way.

It seems like there would be far better ways to dump chips if that was the actual case than to actually have this hand go to showdown.

Skillabuser is from the ukraine I believe.

**** the amount of posts I have, thats nothing to do with it. Fact is the guy came along and posted up suspected bots, not that they deffo are bots, SUSPECTED, and then posted up some stats that might support this theory. Yes they might not be the biggest sample sizes, so could be unreliable/influenced by variance, but fact is at least he tried to post some.
If you can't see that.
You've then go on to use the scope played with player tool, to try to show they don't play in each others games that much. That might not be what OP is saying, since if they're a bot ring, they might not necessarily by coluding, but playing in separate games constantly to avoid detection, one takes 10am-2pm, one 2pm-6pm etc. Just because you think they are so bad they should collude to profit, doesn't mean they would do, getting 0.1% ROI longterm undetected by not colluding could be better than getting 1% ROI short term by colluding then getting shut down!

Yes I'd be fine with it if I was suspected of cheating, because I would provide counter argument when brought to my attention and would trust in a reasoned argument to prove the correct judgement in the end.

And if you think that from a large sample of data you're always gonna get these results, then go through and find 5 other players NOT mentioned in op and find similar stats over a similar according to you unreliable amount of hands, because that will always happen right?

This thread is a joke.

the premise of this thread is based on 45000 hands? lol ? this should be deleted.

Calling out a group and educating them. Well played.

I took a look at their min raising between a stack size of 3-10bbs and 10-12 and make it into a report, here's the results



They all min raise not infrequently between 10-12bbs (apart from Skillabuser who I have a small sample on) but they all almost never min raise between 3-10bbs. It's a very unusual drop in their min raising rates.

A review of the facts

1. They all have extremely low fold to cbet %
2. They all raise extremely widely from UTG
3. They all have extremely high fold to 3bet %
4. They all have high float %
5. They all open limp extremely rarely
6. They all like to make very small 4bets at the 10/20 level
7. They all have similar Ability rating on sharkscope
8. They have all played similar number of games
9. They all (apart from skill) min raise between 10-12bbs and they all almost never min raise between 3-10bbs.
10. 3H4ToK, the only one who opted in to view his stats, only plays one very specific poker tournament - fewer than 0.01% of his games are away from what his main game is.
11. As far as I know, none of them have ever been seen talking in chat (if you have evidence to the contrary please come forward)

If you look at these facts in isolation, nothing seems particularly unusual. But if you look at them together and realise that these 6 players all have these unusual traits in common then you may come to another conclusion. These players all being the same bot would explain all of these things, including why 3H4ToK only plays 1 very specific type of game (he wasn't programmed to play anything else). Ideally I want to know what games the other players have played but I can't see how I can access that information. If they too have also only played 6m hypers then it would look even more suspicious.

Catching bots is not going to be easy. It's not like there's going to be a bug where one of the bots is going to go haywire and start typing binary code in chat to which you exclaim "Aha! I knew it. Take him away boys". It will be more subtle than that. But if you guys refuse to accept this as solid evidence, then I will keep looking and see what else I can find.

Thanks for telling us their stats and leaks, but this thread should be deleted unless you have something huge, which you do not (even remotely).

I also have to ask how it is appropriate to post so many stats publically without positive confirmation that there is wrong-doing. I mean what happens if you are proven wrong?

Is there not a more private discussion venue for this to happen?

stop acting like its golden information to give away someones hud stats

if i was one of these guys id find this thread funny

you can buy hand histories you know

or what about all the free videos on youtube that show hud stats! and also have an instructor telling you how to exploit them

go troll there

How is this relevant? Do regs really chat in HTs? How many Russian players speak English well enough to chat? Would it not be easy for a successful bot operator to chat from time to time as a cover?

The fact that they all come out of the gates playing almost exclusively 6m hypers, 2-300 games a day, 5-6 days per week, and two of them stopped playing the same day 3.5 weeks ago, is far more daming than any hud stats imo.

Yep. Not all of them but a lot of them do.

A fluency in English isn't a requirement to talk in chat. Even if it's just an emoticon or something simple like calling someone a donk, that would count as chatting. These guys have never been seen doing that.

It depends on how the bot would be programmed. Typing into the chat might interrupt the actions it is making and cause bugs when the focus is in the chat box and not the table.

I would also like to remind people that this wouldn't be the first time bots were found at the 6m hypers. In this thread you can read about the previous bot scandal.

It wouldn't be strange if a group of players had similar stats. But every single stat of them I have a good sample size of are extremely similar. There are many more stats of them I have analysed which are incredibly similar that I haven't posted to the forum. They all share the same play style. The probability of a group of 6 players having all very similar stats just by chance is astronomically low. I think that it's time to do some really deep statistical analysis of these stats to come up with a meaningful estimate of the likelihood of this occurring by chance.

FYP

Compared to what????? Please provide screenshots of other players that you dont suspect so that you can support your case. If you don't mind blank out the name...

All of these players ranges get small as they get farther from the button. (see your image in post#1)

Most standard thing ever

From some random post on PT forum, "Float Flop" is what you'd want if a player calls preflop and then bets behind when the preflop aggressor checks"
So wait how is this bad/suspect that they bet when checked to by the PF aggressor??????

Ummmm, this is like basic strategy and likely very few profitable regs open limp more than rarely

Please support your claim by going throught ALL 4bets by these players and be honest if you still think this.

Ability score is dumb and irrelevant.

No...

It is rarely correct to minraise 3-10bb, and almost always correct to minraise between 10-12bb... again a nothing point imo.

Totally irrelevant

Totally irrelevant

You got an actual evidence?

Ive followed this thread from the start and it was a complete waste of my time...

I think the hate on OP is ridiculous. The playing style is extremely abnormal for a human, especially at this stake level, but is very consistent with elite bots. The fact that 6 people all play this really unusual style is at the very least uncommon and deserves further investigation, at the very least they are likely related.