Playing in a live £30 + 3 double chance freezeout, with about 90 horses. I had been playing extremely tight really only playing the top of my range. Playing aces twice, obv getting paid in full cus the standard of play is pretty donkish. Open folded Q 10 from the BB on a queen high flop in a limped pot where i bet out to find out where i was, but the was raised by a tight guy to my immediate left - who then tabled kings. I would like to think my image is that of a rock, and i havent got out of line at all on my table. The table itself, is quite fishy, quite a lot of loose players gambooooling, with like two guys who are fairly tight and had an idea of what they were doing.

The hand itself, i am just shy of 14 k (with my add on already) with blinds at 400/800 with about 50 players left. I have a decent size stack, its around the average and im dealt 77 on the button. Folded round to a guy two to my right who was fairly loose pretty donkish who limps (and broadway combo, any pair, any ace. lots of kings, maybe some decent queens, and connectors are all in his range here) Cut off folds, and now i have my decision. I simply cant fold, its too strong of a hand IMO.

Option 1 ) Theres 2000 in the pot already and i have something like 13.5 k. so if i call i ballon the pot to 2800, and i know the sb makes up here 100% of the time. So assuming the sb makes it up and bb checks the pot would be 3200 - yet 77's in a multi way pot is just a disaster unless im playing for set value, but there really isnt enough behind to justify it for that purpose. So i could stake a stab at any flop and hope to take the pot down as a steal (obv unless i make a set) which is possible as i am on the button and have been playing like a rock

Option 2 ) Shove all in, in the aim of taking down the blinds, 2k in the pot already, shoving for 13 k making it 15 k in total. I like this option, as the stack is too shallow to make a raise and i would prefer to take down the pot uncontested. Instead of being put in trcky spots when over cards fall

Option 3 ) Fold? I dunno, i really think its too strong to just fold - but ill see what you guys think

Opinions? I put the action in white text below, so just highlight if you want to see what actually happend (although would appreciate a post first)


I decided to shove all in, i thought i had good equity against a lot of hands, and really just wanted to take down the blinds cus i really didnt want to see a board, and thought if i get called im not in bad shape. The Original limper had a 3 sooooted and was pretty sure he was going to call (rock image yeah....) IF the BB hadnt woken up and called me with pocket tens, go figure.

Ez shove, results don't matter.

77 is a strong hand, so you at least want to raise, but a small raise pot commits you. I like a shove.

shove em in

I usually just limp here to try to hit a set, but from reading around I don't know if other 2+2'ers think this is a good idea. You can't really raise other than all-in, because the limper isn't going anywhere, and then you're going to be dealing with a pretty big pot with 77, and you're going to have a rough time playing it unless you hit your set.

If you assume the SB and BB are coming along if you limp, you don't think that's enough chips to try for a set? I know that if I do this and miss my set, I'm probably not taking a stab at the pot unless it gets checked-around twice.

I have trouble with middle type PP myself, and in these spots when I'm well over 10BB I'm hesitant to shove. Limping here might be (probably is) a leak of mine.

A standard raise would be 3k-4k here, with 14k behind shoving is surely better than that cause you can´t get ****ed on bad flops - which there are a lot with 77 imo.

Figures so, cause you´re def behind setmining odds one would wish for in these spots. Arrin is a decent tactic in the x bbs ballpark here.

you really need to get into the mindset of whether or not I can play this profitably rather than I have a pair and maybe I can spike...most times we are not gonna get there so spending those chips on a limp is a mistake...

here with 2000 in the pot...decent position and a weak limp we need to shove...most times we will take this down uncontested or at worst be in a race...

online I think we will get called lighter and be racing more...live players will often fold AQ/KQ and even yes AK to a shove so we have more FE than you would think

How many limpers would we need here to justify a limp, or is this a shove regardless of # of limpers?

The more limpers the more I grin and shove live. Live players l/f so much (not that I´m that experienced but generally that´s my impression) and even if they l/c it´s not bad equity wise for all the dead money. So it´s a shove regardless of # of limpers (unless you think one weirdo is trapping - usually I don´t care about this possibility tho) imo.

The more limpers, the better the shove is, not the better the limp is.

tourney poker is an excersize in stack size management above all else...that an FE...

the more limpers the better assuming you have FE which here you do...if you think you have none you can fold some weaker pairs but set mining is just not an option...

shove or fold most hands in your range

As your stack grows relative to the blinds/pot, does this ever become a limp (assuming several limpers), or does it just go from a shove to a raise?

depends how deep and also the stack sizes of the other players...again...biggest thing is to calculate your FE both now and after the flop...

if the limpers are weak limp/call pre and fold flops you should be raising wider when stacks get deep in position...

As a rule I just do not ever open limp..overlimping when stacks are deep is fine with mid pockets...but...be aware of stacks yet to act...if there is a 12-20 BB stack left is he capable of squeezing? if so decide whether you are gonna call or fold if that happens before getting involved

There really isnt enough chips behind to try and set mine. General rule of thumb is 10 x bet behind to try and get a set, but with that much in the pot i went for the all in cus that was a nice pot already and really didnt want to take a risk at a bigger pot.

Either way i was destined to go bust, a3 soooooted would of spiked an ace on the flop.

Nice to hear that my move was the right play, i thought it at the time. Was just intrested on others opinions thanks y'all

wait...A 3 suited called??? 2 all ins?

or did he fold face up?

nah, a 3 sooooted said he was going call if pocket tens hadnt, but he did give it a fair amount of thought, he did eventually open fold