Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Sunday 100K: AK against early raiser, flopped top two. Sunday 100K: AK against early raiser, flopped top two.

03-23-2008 , 07:36 PM
This is a hand that a friend of mine played, and I got into an argument over it with another friend. Well a friendly discussion.

Villain had been quite active with raises, also in early position. Showing down ATs once.
Please comment on pre- and postflop play. My other friend argued he should move all-in preflop (which I think is okay), and he also argued that one should raise all-in right away on the flop. I don't mind that either, but his reasoning was to protect your hand from draws. I said with that flop all that matters is how you get your money into the middle. If it's by raising all-in, fine. But the min-raise wasn't that bad either in this situation imo, and villain might have pushed with any Ax and we would have had him crushed. And realistically there weren't any draws except one longshot (which, of course, the opponent actually had).

Poker Stars $10+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t400/t800 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: t6515
UTG+1: t27701
UTG+2: t19690
MP1: t9514
MP2: t6575
CO: t5342
BTN: t11020
SB: t8168
BB: t9345

Pre Flop:
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t2200, UTG+2 calls t2200, 6 folds

Flop: (t6275) 3 A K (2 players)
UTG+1 bets t3200, UTG+2 raises to t6400, UTG+1 raises to t25426 all in, UTG+2 calls t11015 all in

Turn: (t41105) 3 (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: (t41105) 9 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Spoiler:
Final Pot: t41105
UTG+1 shows Tc Jc (a flush, Ace high)
UTG+2 shows Kd Ad (two pair, Aces and Kings)
UTG+1 wins t41105
Sunday 100K: AK against early raiser, flopped top two. Quote
03-23-2008 , 08:34 PM
<shrug> However you get the money in is good. Oh, and 3-bet preflop.
Sunday 100K: AK against early raiser, flopped top two. Quote
03-23-2008 , 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proofrock
<shrug> However you get the money in is good. Oh, and 3-bet preflop.
Push preflop, that is.
Sunday 100K: AK against early raiser, flopped top two. Quote
03-23-2008 , 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenJames
Push preflop, that is.
I don't quite understand this, PUSH PR?
Over 27,000 to win 1200???

Can someone explain the reasoning here?

I think HERO played the hand fine and got unlucky. I may have flat called the flop and re-evaluate on the turn. I'd shove any non-broadway completing card or club, since those are the only draws on the board.
Sunday 100K: AK against early raiser, flopped top two. Quote
03-23-2008 , 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMOOTH55
I don't quite understand this, PUSH PR?
Over 27,000 to win 1200???

Can someone explain the reasoning here?

I think HERO played the hand fine and got unlucky. I may have flat called the flop and re-evaluate on the turn. I'd shove any non-broadway completing card or club, since those are the only draws on the board.
UTG+2 should 3-bet push preflop. UTG+1 should just fold preflop.
Sunday 100K: AK against early raiser, flopped top two. Quote
03-23-2008 , 10:07 PM
You say there weren't any draws except for the longshot draw the opponnent actually had. Well any time there's a flush draw I wouldn't call that a long shot, and he had a gutshot royal Flush draw. Longshot draw LOL.

That being said after the flop I love the way you're friend played hand. When you min raise a lunatic on a big flop when he led out, after raising pre-flop you're gonna get the money in nearly every single time.

Nothing could be done IMO, with the exception of pushing preflop, but that is being results oriented.
Sunday 100K: AK against early raiser, flopped top two. Quote
03-23-2008 , 10:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by montanad12
You say there weren't any draws except for the longshot draw the opponnent actually had. Well any time there's a flush draw I wouldn't call that a long shot, and he had a gutshot royal Flush draw. Longshot draw LOL.
[...]but that is being results oriented.
Maybe you are a little results-oriented yourself, or maybe I didn't express myself properly.
We have an UTG+1 raise, flop comes AcKc3s. UTG+1 bets out.

The likely scenario is that he has hit something, for example an ace. There are several combinations of AQ, AJ, AT that he could have and would play this way. No flush draws possible.
The unlikely scenario is that he has one of the following hands: QcJc, QcTc, JcTc. These are all questionable regarding the preflop raise, and there are only three of them, compared to many more A hands.

That's what I meant by "longshot".
Sunday 100K: AK against early raiser, flopped top two. Quote
03-24-2008 , 12:05 AM
Push preflop imo, no point in putting half your stack in 3-betting cause you pretty much have to push any flop and he will most likely look you down pretty light (and you usually wont get that nice of a flop).

3-betting is def > than calling preflop

As played preflop, flop action standard
Sunday 100K: AK against early raiser, flopped top two. Quote
03-24-2008 , 02:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMOOTH55
I don't quite understand this, PUSH PR?
Over 27,000 to win 1200???

Can someone explain the reasoning here?

I think HERO played the hand fine and got unlucky. I may have flat called the flop and re-evaluate on the turn. I'd shove any non-broadway completing card or club, since those are the only draws on the board.
He has 19k behind him and the pot to him is about 4k, making over 20% of his stack (2k or more for blinds + antes and the UTG's raise = >4k). If you ever want to enter a pot of 20 or more percent of your stack, you push, period. You don't flat call, you don't do a standard 3x bet, you push or you fold.

Or you can just call or do a standard 3bet and then have an inadequate amount of chips to correctly maneuver post flop, but this will almost always leave you in situations where you're committed with the worst of it.
Sunday 100K: AK against early raiser, flopped top two. Quote

      
m