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STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

05-03-2008 , 05:01 PM
Original raiser and caller are 20/17 type taggos, no stats on 3 bet coldcall guy.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

BB ($36.75)
UTG ($125.23)
MP ($50.75)
CO ($78.52)
Button ($109.72)
Hero ($49.50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T, T.
UTG raises to $2, 2 folds, Button calls $2, Hero raises to $9, BB calls $8.50, UTG folds, Button folds.

Flop: ($22) Q, K, K (2 players)
Hero pukes
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-03-2008 , 05:21 PM
i'd just call preflop and now i'd check
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-03-2008 , 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuwei
Also, Devin, I'm curious what you did with the A3 hand, and your thoughts on the river?
We pretty much shared identical thoughts. I just replayed preflop in my head and given our relative positions I thought he has AQ (and maybe AK) a lot, and I really didn't like c/f and shove >>>> c/c....so, I shoved and puked when he insta called. But, he had AQ.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-03-2008 , 05:43 PM
CO is 15/13/3.7 but has some play in him.
BTN is a 24/17/2.5 tagfish that I'm happy when I see him at my tables. Calls too much, especially from the BB.

Party Poker $400 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

SB: $830.90
BB: $219.19
Hero (UTG): $406.00
MP: $469.80
CO: $417.40
BTN: $398.00

Pre Flop: Hero is UTG with Q A
Hero raises to $14, 1 fold, CO calls $14, BTN calls $14, 2 folds

Flop: ($48.00) J A T (3 players)
Hero ????
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-03-2008 , 05:46 PM
Villain is a 20/18/2.5 or so tagfish with the sn Pudge_714.

Party Poker $400 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

UTG: $89.00
MP: $646.17
CO: $603.83
BTN: $398.00
Hero (SB): $396.00
BB: $804.90

Pre Flop: Hero is SB with J J
4 folds, Hero raises to $14, BB calls $10

Flop: ($28.00) K 4 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $14, BB raises to $31, Hero ????
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-03-2008 , 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiggs73
i'd just call preflop and now i'd check
c/f for you? I think this would be best but since he was unknown I just shoved
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-03-2008 , 07:02 PM
devin AQo

I think check. You're not that likely to get bluffed off by a worse hand or get value from a better one. If you're going to get any value from weaker hands I think it will be more likely on the turn. After you check the flop you may very well find out for free that you are beat.

JJ

So easy for someone to look dumb here. It's a great flop to cbet and he knows that, so it's a great spot for him to steal. He could be defending with KQ, KJ or something, but 44, 66 are there along with a fair amount of air.

I think you either fold here or flat-call, turning your hand face up, and dare him to try to make you fold it. My inclination is to fold, but it depends on game flow.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-03-2008 , 10:04 PM
Devin,

AQ hand, I'd bet and see what happens.

JJ... It's a good flop for him to bluff raise... I think if you call, you pretty much have to be ready to c/c your stack off, although maybe I'm wrong on this. I'm just not expecting him to slow down if we call and check the turn.

One thing that could be kind of fun would be to 3bet to something in the $85-115 range and call his shove. I think if he's bluff raising this flop (and I think he is sort of often for a lot of reasons, mostly having to do with board texture and what hands he'd call with and what hands he thinks you could call a lot of bets with) then a small 3bet looks FOS enough that it might induce a shove. Or I could just be way out in left field somewhere, idk.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-04-2008 , 12:27 AM
on the AQ hand I'm w/ wiggs

JJ hand I lean w/ micro but spew a lot in spots like this so perhaps a 3bet/call, **** I dunno.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-04-2008 , 12:29 AM
acutally, on the JJ hand I'd cbet big like $26 and fold to pressure, makes it ez'er to play that way, and I'm all about (trying) to make hands ez'er to play.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-04-2008 , 12:44 AM
Like 8th hand, guy seems pretty Loose passive, standard half racker at 50NL HU.

Only question is do you bet flop and really wanted to post this just to comment this is why I quit SNG's

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (2 handed) Ultimate Bet Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($51.85)
BB ($24)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, K.
Hero raises to $1.5, BB calls $1.

Flop: ($3) K, Q, Q (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($3) 9 (2 players)
BB bets $3, Hero raises to $10, BB calls $7.

River: ($23) K (2 players)
BB bets $12.5 (All-In), Hero calls $12.50.

Final Pot: $48

EDIT: Forgot results he had JJ
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-04-2008 , 12:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoreanBuffet
Like 8th hand, guy seems pretty Loose passive, standard half racker at 50NL HU.

Only question is do you bet flop and really wanted to post this just to comment this is why I quit SNG's

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (2 handed) Ultimate Bet Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($51.85)
BB ($24)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, K.
Hero raises to $1.5, BB calls $1.

Flop: ($3) K, Q, Q (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($3) 9 (2 players)
BB bets $3, Hero raises to $10, BB calls $7.

River: ($23) K (2 players)
BB bets $12.5 (All-In), Hero calls $12.50.

Final Pot: $48

EDIT: Forgot results he had JJ
def bet that flop youd cbet that a ton anyways and its tough to get his stack with just two streets alot of guys will just c/c turn and plan on c/c most rivers or even just call one street then fold jacks. ESPECIALLY if you think he's loose passive
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-04-2008 , 01:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinLake
CO is 15/13/3.7 but has some play in him.
BTN is a 24/17/2.5 tagfish that I'm happy when I see him at my tables. Calls too much, especially from the BB.

Party Poker $400 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

SB: $830.90
BB: $219.19
Hero (UTG): $406.00
MP: $469.80
CO: $417.40
BTN: $398.00

Pre Flop: Hero is UTG with Q A
Hero raises to $14, 1 fold, CO calls $14, BTN calls $14, 2 folds

Flop: ($48.00) J A T (3 players)
Hero ????
c/c the flop, prob c/f after. what you want is flop to check through so no one will put you on an A though. That's the only way you're getting a decent amount of value here 3-handed vs non-******s

Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinLake
Villain is a 20/18/2.5 or so tagfish with the sn Pudge_714.

Party Poker $400 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

UTG: $89.00
MP: $646.17
CO: $603.83
BTN: $398.00
Hero (SB): $396.00
BB: $804.90

Pre Flop: Hero is SB with J J
4 folds, Hero raises to $14, BB calls $10

Flop: ($28.00) K 4 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $14, BB raises to $31, Hero ????
fold, he's putting you on an installment plan here like 90+% of the time. He wants you to call the flop b/c its so small, then call the turn b/c every turn is a brick and you called the flop, then call the river b/c you called the turn etc. Berate him for min-raising though.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-05-2008 , 09:21 AM
MP is 16/12 nit lots of hands, other guy 25/20/4, nothing showndown out of line so far.
How do I proceed. If I call, will I be folding to more PF action and what am I doing on non-A or K flops if I see a flop, and if I 4-bet, how much and do I call a shove?

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

MP: $105.15
CO: $230.10
BTN: $94.50
Hero (SB): $121.80
BB: $112.55
UTG: $100.00

Pre Flop: Hero is SB with Q Q
1 fold, MP raises to $4, CO calls $4, BTN raises to $12, Hero...
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-05-2008 , 09:33 AM
36/8/3 - af by street --> 2/3/4

He check-rz a bunch, so I checked flop to induce aggression on later streets and to also avoid a check/raise on the flop to help pot control.

River, I'd normally treat his lolbet as a check and value bet to like $15-$20...agree? If I do bet, and he re-raises, easy fold?

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

Hero (BTN): $156.25
SB: $101.85
BB: $110.40
UTG: $259.90
MP: $123.85
CO: $100.30

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with K T
UTG calls $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $5, 2 folds, UTG calls $4

Flop: ($11.50) 4 Q K (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($11.50) 2 (2 players)
UTG bets $7, Hero calls $7

River: ($25.50) 5 (2 players)
UTG bets $1, Hero...
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-05-2008 , 09:41 AM
here are some rambly thoughts about this hand... i'd love to come up with something better than a rambling post, but how to play in this spot is probably currently the weakest part of my game, so maybe some others will have enlightening thoughts on the subject.

first thing that comes to mind is that i don't like 4bet/calling because i think the times you get shoved on after cold 4betting, you'll be up against AA/KK the vast majority of the time.

this thought made me think... i probably don't cold 4bet as a bluff enough. i mean really, what's the difference between QQ and 23o here if we're going to fold to a shove preflop or shut down if we get called? We're representing a strong hand either way and I'd expect a cold 4bet to win the pot a lot of the time preflop. so maybe i should start mixing in bluffs in this spot, because that's something i really never do.

as far as calling, it might be the best option, but being OOP, it's going to make postflop suck. pot is really really likely to be multiway, we're gonna have no idea where we are, etc etc. also we have the problem of getting 4bet pre, because now we've underrepped our hand at least somewhat, which is going to make getting in pre at least somewhat more tempting.

and then that thought made me think... how bad is just folding? i mean in general, folding QQ pre isn't really my thing, but the pot is sort of at an awkward size, we're OOP... there's just a lot of things working against us. but thinking about long term win rates, i wonder how much of an impact folding here would make. we've got a whopping 50 cents invested in the pot and i really don't know how much EV we're sacrificing long term by just folding, but i'm thinking it probably isn't much, if any.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-05-2008 , 09:41 AM
I would four bet to like 28 to give the illusion of fold equity and fold to a shove. The nit isn't that nitty and the button could be rr light with a lot of hands. He has 95 bbs and so QQ is the nuts. Also, you are OOP so be inclined to pick up the pot and move on.
Mike's QQ hand.

Last edited by MadScientist; 05-05-2008 at 09:48 AM. Reason: You are like bottled lightning wit tha postin
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-05-2008 , 09:48 AM
that last post was obv in response to the QQ hand.

The KT hand, I'd bet flop (I'd rather check if the Qh was the 8s or something), as played I think you gotta raise river to like $15 for value. If he min-re-raises you, idk, I go on tilt and I'm bad at predicting what I'd do while on tilt but I guess folding is correct even though his line makes no sense for anything, i think it's more likely to be a ******ed value line than a ******ed bluff line
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-05-2008 , 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMcQ1
36/8/3 - af by street --> 2/3/4

He check-rz a bunch, so I checked flop to induce aggression on later streets and to also avoid a check/raise on the flop to help pot control.

River, I'd normally treat his lolbet as a check and value bet to like $15-$20...agree? If I do bet, and he re-raises, easy fold?

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

Hero (BTN): $156.25
SB: $101.85
BB: $110.40
UTG: $259.90
MP: $123.85
CO: $100.30

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with K T
UTG calls $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $5, 2 folds, UTG calls $4

Flop: ($11.50) 4 Q K (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($11.50) 2 (2 players)
UTG bets $7, Hero calls $7

River: ($25.50) 5 (2 players)
UTG bets $1, Hero...
as played i would raise to 15 and fold to a 3bet.

i would go ahead and bet this flop, and call a cr. the fact he's been cr'ing a lot doesn't bother me, as we've got TOPTOP. after that the difficult decisions come when he bombs the turn/river. if the turn completes the FD i'm a lot less likely to call another bet, same with the river etc.


edit: you said you checked to induce later aggression. i do not think that because villain c/r's a lot translates to spewy in later streets
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-05-2008 , 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengiec
the fact he's been cr'ing a lot doesn't bother me, as we've got TOPTOP.
doesn't TOPTOP stand for tptk?
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-05-2008 , 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMcQ1
MP is 16/12 nit lots of hands, other guy 25/20/4, nothing showndown out of line so far.
How do I proceed. If I call, will I be folding to more PF action and what am I doing on non-A or K flops if I see a flop, and if I 4-bet, how much and do I call a shove?

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

MP: $105.15
CO: $230.10
BTN: $94.50
Hero (SB): $121.80
BB: $112.55
UTG: $100.00

Pre Flop: Hero is SB with Q Q
1 fold, MP raises to $4, CO calls $4, BTN raises to $12, Hero...
make it $25 and fold to a 4-bet from MP, get it in against anyone else unless BB cold 5-bets.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-05-2008 , 12:29 PM
Bleh I can't play 6max cuz I jam with QQ everytime even if I see the guy's cards...gh if someone 5bet and you folded.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-05-2008 , 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMcQ1
MP is 16/12 nit lots of hands, other guy 25/20/4, nothing showndown out of line so far.
How do I proceed. If I call, will I be folding to more PF action and what am I doing on non-A or K flops if I see a flop, and if I 4-bet, how much and do I call a shove?

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

MP: $105.15
CO: $230.10
BTN: $94.50
Hero (SB): $121.80
BB: $112.55
UTG: $100.00

Pre Flop: Hero is SB with Q Q
1 fold, MP raises to $4, CO calls $4, BTN raises to $12, Hero...
I think I'd just call and fold to a 4-bet, but it's tough and weak if he's 4-betting AK.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-05-2008 , 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMcQ1
36/8/3 - af by street --> 2/3/4

He check-rz a bunch, so I checked flop to induce aggression on later streets and to also avoid a check/raise on the flop to help pot control.

River, I'd normally treat his lolbet as a check and value bet to like $15-$20...agree? If I do bet, and he re-raises, easy fold?

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

Hero (BTN): $156.25
SB: $101.85
BB: $110.40
UTG: $259.90
MP: $123.85
CO: $100.30

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with K T
UTG calls $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $5, 2 folds, UTG calls $4

Flop: ($11.50) 4 Q K (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($11.50) 2 (2 players)
UTG bets $7, Hero calls $7

River: ($25.50) 5 (2 players)
UTG bets $1, Hero...
lol. I'd probably valuetown myself here. Raise small though, like to $10.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
05-05-2008 , 02:45 PM
I never know what that $1 river bet means and its always the 40/8 idiots who do it. he probably has Q5 or some other unreadable hand.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote

      
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