You're 3betting out of position clearly for value, so why would you
5bet light small against a tight 4betting range? People really fold? gtfo

If you're 3betting light and small oop i'm lost

fwiw I watched isildur1 v sauce123 playing hu....and their standard oop
3bets were more than 4x, raise to $400, reraise to $1800 (100+BB deep). Obviously good aggro players and you might be only talking about
fish.

The only way I could see 3betting small and light oop is if the raiser
is a fish and you want to isolate cheaply instead of allowing a good
player to call behind and make it much less profitable than hu v fish.

I don't mind 3 betting small if initial raiser folds on every board he whiffs. Just make sure you make bigger 3 bets vs guys that will float flops or call down in 3 bet pots. There's nothing wrong with making different sized 3 bets given the opponent.

Villain was 16/13 over 381 hands with 4.5% 3bet and 33% 4bet.




Villain was 25/21 over 159 hands with 3.8% 3bet and 50% 4bet.









This one was also funky.

Villain was 19/15 over 207 hands with 5.6% 3bet and 43% 4bet.

I'm obv stacking off on flop, but a lot of times he will whiff the flop and give up.

Epic spew ITT.

Your hand selection for 3bets and 5 bets is just plain weird. I don't get it!

It's opponent/spot dependent.
Actually I had only 5 hands show up in my DB where I 5bet and it was not pf allin.
Two others were Axx flop and I got shoved on over my half pot cbet.
I just like to get funky/spewy occasionally. It keeps things interesting and first times you get away with a lot vs regs imo.
It will not really show up significantly in my ranges as well I think.
Other than those I only have value range for 4or 5betting ldo.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with attacking villain specific leaks, but the hands that we select to construct our range still need to make some sense, e.g. Ace blockers, suited 2 gappers etc. Basically hands that are too weak to call pre and at the top of our folding range that have some benefits to 3betting such as having a blocker to increase FE or having suitedness/connectedness so that we can flop equity and barrell good turns etc. etc.

3betting 89o in position or Q7s OOP don't make any sense to me. Gimme T7s IP and A7o OOP and yeah we can get think about getting busy.

I didn't have a choice of hands in those spots Neil. I played the ones I got dealt.. ;-)

deurdy what is the reason you are betting small on flop/turn and potting the river in every single one of those hands

Halfpothalfpotfullpot.jpg

Derby taught me all he knows about bet sizing in Holland. Funnily enough since trying it for 20k hands, I've broken even!

I'm actually only potting river for value and I do it to polarise a bit more, I feel that a 3rd barrel half pot screams value and this way they might think there is a chance I'm trying to bluff barrel them off a good hand.
Not sure if that is the right line of thought though.

yea just ignore board textures and who you're playing against

when it comes to bet sizing consider what their calling ranges on the flop and turn are, which is a function of flop texture and the actual player. you are missing lots of value from draws/hands that call 2 barrels but not 3. half/half/full to me seems like you are trying to stretch for value because you didn't size well on flop/turn

when some one half pot half pot pots it versus me, I look for every reason possible to call.

Yeah thats what I'm trying to accomplish.
I agree with cake that of course "it depends". In practise I'm not solely half-potting of course. I also have c/r possibilities and also adjust betsizing on some board textures etc.
But I do half-pot most of the time.

When I open eg 88 pf and get a caller in LP and flop comes A8xhh or something, I'm quite often mixing it up with a c/r, since it looks so much like a draw and it builds the pot quicker, especially when they have Ax. Whereas otherwise they station it up a lot.

villain is middle-aged white guy reg, former military, has kinda sour disposition today. had famous (in the card room at least) bustout hand for 29th in WSOPME where he made ridiculous overshove. he was bitching pretty hard about the river a couple hands before

hero opens ****ty ace in LP. everyone folds to villain in BB. flop Axx. villain leads 2/3rds pot. hero calls. turn blank, villain leads 2/3rds pot, hero calls. board is bone dry. villain blind bets 1/2 pot....had never seen this in a live game so i start thinking for a minute. river was also a brick. i actually say outloud "what, seriously?" and get a really confused look on my face.

villain finally says "if you fold i'll show"...hero calls 5 seconds later. the "i'll show if you fold line" means he has some marginal hand right?

I'm sure it depends..
He probably doesn't want you to call but still has you beat :-)
Actually if he has a sour look I would also call. If he was being friendly by mindset he would be more likely to do you a favour by showing the better hand.
Art least that would be my reasoning.

heh, i like that logic. i think if he was in a better mood i probably would've folded. seemed like he just wanted the pot. when i asked if it was really a blind bet he was like "yes, really" kinda annoyed.

yeah he was acting really pissed off. i didn't see if he had moved tables but i think he started the session fairly recently.

What did he have?

ace with bad kicker. we chopped.

hand was a long time ago, can't remember if his kicker was better than mine or not.

Was expecting something like AT

ill show if you fold can mean a lot of things

I would probably click call =p Duerdy sums it up nicely

I limp, next to act limps, villain jams for $130. Folds back around to me?

Acceptable?

It's VroooomVrooooom poker and didn't have HUD yet on HM1, so readless.
As a rule of thumb everyone is really aggro.

PokerStars - $0.50 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: $50.00
Hero (SB): $50.00
BB: $25.00
UTG: $109.31
MP: $50.75
CO: $54.06

Hero posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero has 9 T

fold, MP raises to $1.50, fold, fold, Hero raises to $4.00, fold, MP calls $2.50

Flop: ($8.50, 2 players) 7 K Q
Hero bets $4.06, MP raises to $8.50, Hero calls $4.44

Turn: ($25.50, 2 players) 8
Hero checks, MP bets $13.00, Hero raises to $37.50 and is all-in,

Damn I ****ing hate Zoom!!! So boring!! And so nitty!
Maybe its much looser at PLO100 and NL100?
when you move up tell me if you think theres a difference.

More oop 4.50 or 5...
EHHHHH c/f flop and 3.50/give up probably close, I shut down to that raise always, we can't call there

I'd rather bet small once and give up or bet big at least twice

I called on flop cause of the gutter mainly (and backdoor), getting ~5:1 and having some implied odds.

I don't think it's nitty at all actually.
I find that it's so aggressive that you should play only for value since you get so much value. Especially since people seem to 3bet too much.
then I again I cannot really say this for sure, since I don't have HUD stats yet.
Fired up PT3 again, but did not get the HUD to work, since I'm an idiot.