I really do not like isolating with QJs OOP here against an aggro villain.
I'm actually trying to get myself to iso less OOP, since I have the feeling it is costing me $$.

Yesterday I decided to buy that leakbuster subscription, to see if it adds value. For $75 I don't think it can turn out that bad. Haven't started it up yet, but will try that today.
Anyway tried this? Hope it will help me spot some leaks.

Spewage?

Villain was obv limping loose fish - ~60/10/1
Poker Stars $25.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $27.10
UTG: $13.40
MP: $35.90
CO: $4.30
BTN: $8.30
Hero (SB): $47.75

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with A Q
UTG calls $0.25, 3 folds, Hero raises to $1.25, 1 fold, UTG calls $1

Flop: ($2.75) 4 5 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks

Turn: ($2.75) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.90, UTG calls $1.90

River: ($6.55) Q (2 players)
Hero bets $4.10, UTG raises to $10.25, Hero calls $6.15

I'd still cbet flop, and if he calls c/f turn if it bricks me.
As played I'd probably c/c river, to catch some bluffs, since these guys always seem to bet river.

Deurdy

We lose value against a Loose/Passive guy by checking the river, they just dont bluff but love to call.

xPeru

Against this guy I would C/F the turn and value bet the river like you did but once he raises I puke as its a hard to fold but IMO he flats weaker Q's.

I didn't cbet simply because I had nothing, assumed that flop missed him by a mile, and was a mile ahead of him even so, so thought the only opportunity to pick up any more money off him would be to c/r flop.

Turn I bet to get a bad call from a diamond draw.

River bet was for value from 77-TT/Qx. When he raised I guessed I was either crushed or being bluffed. Bluffs being a large percentage of shortstack river shoves at this level esp on missed draws with a board scare card. I quickly guessed that he could be shoving a missed str8 draw or flush draw, or Qx, and thought that might be enough of his range to give me odds for a call.

I think my biggest mistake was including Qx in my range estimate - AF 1s flat TP to big river bets, as you say. He had 87o for the flopped str8 of course, which is why he flatted the turn on a paired board with two diamonds ... Obv!

Peru, checking the flop is fine. But, you can't really be miles ahead of his range. So, I'd c/f the flop if I checked.

On the turn, I'd probably just check call now, given ur hand is very likely good, and not a lot of worse hands will call.

River sucks and I tend to just fold any non 2pr+ hands here, but given the price b/c can't be bad.

CO was 23/19 over 64 hands, so 3betting here on BTN seemed like good opportunity.
SB flat obv sends alarm bells off, and I expect this to be top of his range, as he was 12/5 over 37 hands.

I checked flop to see if CO maybe flatted an A on the turn, and to perhaps get value on turn from QQ/KK from SB.
How is the river, at this point I'm fairly sure he has KK or QQ, but should I shove for value? AK seems unlikely for him and I think he may lead out with that or a set.


Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP2: $164.45
CO: $210.10
Hero (BTN): $100.00
SB: $116.45
BB: $98.50
UTG: $88.50
UTG+1: $106.00
UTG+2: $256.65
MP1: $108.15

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BTN with 7 A
5 folds, CO raises to $3, Hero raises to $10, SB calls $9.50, 1 fold, CO calls $7

Flop: ($31.00) 5 A T (3 players)
SB checks, CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($31.00) 6 (3 players)
SB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $21, SB calls $21, CO folds

River: ($73.00) T (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

I don't know that you can shove river for value here ever. I like the flop check since it opens up his calling range on the turn and you might get a bet out of JJ-KK, like you said.

I'd check the river back here a lot. When a player this tight flats a 3b oop his range is so ridic strong. You aren't getting a call from JJ/QQ/KK and he isn't folding AJ/AQ/AK.

I'm often all for betting when you are close to 100% sure ur hand is good, and just hope for them to make a hero call. But, I think it's a little to thin here.

I think he'd expect you to bet a club draw on the flop. When you check, it looks like you have a little something, or are just giving up. When you bet the turn it now doesn't look like you are giving up, so you are either vbing that little something, or just picked up the diamond draw.

On the river, the diamonds got there, a lot of ur little something range just tripped up, and you can still have weak Ax hands in ur range.

So, it's going to be very tough for him to put you on a hand that JJ (which I think is most likely) can beat.

Thanks guys. Villain had kk, so read was good, but as said i was not sure on river. Glad to hear you are not in favor of shoving here.

i like shoving in these situations, a lot of players (even nits) don't have the discipline to fold KK here. even if they fold close to 100% it's not a bad thing to keep them wondering and maybe get a light call down later on. i also like to keep them in the dark about my 3betting range for as long as possible.

This morning I caught myself calling a river bet BECAUSE I wanted villain to see my hand even though I was sure I was behind. Villain was a 59/0/4 - unusual style, and sat immediately on my left. He had 200bbs, and I had already targetted his stack as my mission for the table. I was most unusually raising a very weak hand from UTG - let's call it shania, and since my range is enormously tighter, I wanted to feed him some false information. + his river bet was only 4bb. Anyone else ever do this?

Dave makes an interesting point about meta game but vs. a super tight reg I don't think its necessary/profitable. In a pot vs. a laggier reg who can actually show up with less than the nuts then I think it makes more sense to shove the river.

Hypothetically, if this villain ends up being 12/5 ish over a large sample they are going to tend to be super terrible and play very straightforward, and wont be creative enough to regwar.

The only time I ever think about calling to get information for a future hand is when they've done something like check a flop I wouldn't expect them to check, and I want to see what they are doing it with. And still, I rarely do it.

I'll bet sometimes when the bluff has less of chance of working then normal, if I really don't want to show the hand down. But, again it's rare.

I really don't concern myself with people seeing that I'm messing around in certain spots. I just try and remember that they've seen my messing around in those spots and play off that.

Shoving the river in the Ax hand so you don't have to show your hand is kinda silly if that's the only reason. If you never 3bet the button, and did it this one time with air, it's not a bad thing if they see it. If you do it with air a lot, they will know because of frequencies.

Also, dave, if you shove this hand and they fold close to 100% of the time, it's probably not good. Cause, some % of the time they call, you are beat by a slow played hand or a back door whatever. If that % is the same as they hero call, it's neutral.

Peru, I don't think you need to do anything to advertise to a 50vpip player to get action. I was playing a 50/30 today, and just didn't get any good spots to 3bet him light for a long time. I finally do and he defends with JTo and I take most of his stack even though I was light with KJo. So, I've been allowing him to open whatever he wants, from where ever he wants for a long time...and then he defends when I finally 3bet him? They just don't care about what hands you could have.

This is a bad frame of mind to be in. It's good to table select, and understand where the majority of your money comes from. But, that money usually won't come your way if you try too hard to get it.

Obviously you isolate him with a widish range, and open a little wider when he's in the BB etc. But if you make it your mission to get his stack, you'll probably start to force it in spots. You'll isolate with hands you shouldn't be isolating him with and bluffing in spots you shouldn't be bluffing.

1st short stack limper is 29/7 over 15 hands. I was considering a raise, but limped because of the two decent semi-shortstackers who would see me as a higher 3better and may come over to top. Also BTN is tight/decent and 9/7 over 68 hands.
Also I just want the whale on my direct left to join in. He's 41/20 over 41 hands.
I called the raise, because I figured I could abort if I dont hit it good and otherwise get to play a big pot against a very obvious range from BTN and a spewy whale, whom I was certain would come along.

So then I flop this OESD and the spewtard overshoves allin, resulting in an instashove from BTN.
At that point I put BTN on QQ+, and CO on JT/78/QT/QJ/Q8, but mostly JT and 78.
With that said, are you calling here?
I tried to do some quick math in game, at which I suck obv, but I'd figure it's close and I was 2 BI down as is, so just called.
Fold or call?


Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (MP2): $100.00
CO: $77.20
BTN: $101.00
SB: $105.80
BB: $40.45
UTG: $41.95
UTG+1: $20.00
UTG+2: $100.00
MP1: $11.90

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is MP2 with J T
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $1, 2 folds, Hero calls $1, CO calls $1, BTN raises to $4.50, 3 folds, Hero calls $3.50, CO calls $3.50

Flop: ($16.00) 6 9 Q (3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $72.70 all in, BTN raises to $96.50 all in, Hero calls $95.50 all in

interesting spot, if you had led the flop and action followed the same you'd be priced in to call. as played it's a little better than break even at best. if JT is a big part of co's range and/or KK makes up a good portion of btn's range then it becomes a losing play.

It's a poker stove hand, but my instinct would be that I'm not getting the right price and I'd fold.

If there was a club on the flop so you have backdoor flush draw - does this change your instinct Devin, or do you totally discount that?

FWIW I instafold with 8 outs maximum and CO not being full stacked.

Yeah, pokerstove didnt like it one bit with BTN range as QQ+, think I spewed some equity there.

How would you play this hand below.


Poker Stars $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $111.80
UTG+1: $124.10
UTG+2: $113.00
Hero (MP1): $123.30
MP2: $100.00
CO: $98.50
BTN: $104.75
SB: $106.50
BB: $107.25

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is MP1 with 8 T
2 folds, UTG+2 calls $1, Hero calls $1, 2 folds, BTN calls $1, SB calls $0.50, BB checks

Flop: ($5.00) 3 8 5 (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets $3.00, BTN calls $3, SB folds, BB raises to $11, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls $8, BTN folds

Turn: ($30.00) Q (2 players)
BB bets $22.00, Hero calls $22

River: ($74.00) 8 (2 players)


Pf I would normally fold or raise, but in this case I already had a fair 3bet% and there were a couple of perceptive regs behind.
BB was 18/11 with 4.7% 3bet over 137 hands. My profit on this table up to this point comes from a 4bet pot pf with AA which I took down with a postflop cbet. Before that I also 4bet him on BTN vs his SB resteal to which he folded. Wasn't sure if it was relevant at the time.
BTN was 19/15 with 5.2% 3bet over 288 hands.
Since pot wasn't raised pf I could see BB having 2pair/set/OESD/combodraw.

So on flop, should I 3bet him looking to get it in, or just flat with position and a bunch of outs?

How about the turn? My reason for calling was:
1) if he has a set he could pay off my flush.
2) if he has 2 pair I have 14 outs to improve.
3) if he has a draw himself I'm still ahead.

River is kinda sick, cause I felt that if he would shove I would have to make a crying fold, since there would be no way he would turn counterfeited 2 pair into a bluff, and without a sick read that I would fold river to a shove I don't think he would shove a missed draw. So that would just leave boats in his range.
So what do you do if he shoves? and what would you do if he checks?

I don't think the extra 3% would sway my decision either way.

T8s hand.

Preflop: limping is fine. Although I don't see what your 3bet % has to do with your decision preflop.

Flop: is standard. I don't think you should be trying to get this type of draw in with this many people seeing the flop and these pot-to-stack ratios. You are getting a good price, so I'd just call. You're two pair/trip outs aren't clean.

Turn: I'd just fold. I don't think you are getting the right price. You hand will look a lot like a fd, so it doesn't have great implied odds, and binking an 8/T can have some reverse implied odds.

I don't like the preflop limp - it's inducing a squeeze, it's saying I'm too weak to raise, so it's limiting the strength you can show post flop. If you're going to play hands like T8s preflop from mid position, a raise preflop gives you many more opportunities to win. Otherwise I agree 100% with Devin.

The only time I'd call a limper with this hand is if there are a couple more limpers, and passive blinds - this strategy substantially increases your implied odds

If someone wanted to play a spread limit hold em game, do you all think they should be studying and thinking about the game from a no limit or limit perspective ??


thanks for the input.

Well, if my 3bet% is quite high, then they will perceive me as isolating lightish and thus 4bet lighter.
I find myself doing that every now and then and it's quite profitable and they difficult to counter.