With respect for Eagles, here is the text minus the example hands:

GAWD all this talk about folding AK pf and 3betting and 4betting and w/e is so dumb and basically everyone is wrong so I'm going to make a long post that I hope is beneficial to everyone.(Note: at the lower stakes game where 3betting light isn't as common it isn't as important but than again its important that you start 3betting light so I'll get into that).
Especially at 3/6+ most decent players are capable of 3betting light.
In tough games you need to 3bet light for a bunch of reasons.
1. You get paid off with your big pairs/AK
2. You gain a lot of immediate ev because typically people (without history) will only call 3bets with 20-30% of their opening range so you take down the pot uncontested all the time.
3. Even if you get called you can win the pot a ton postflop either by making the best hand or bluffing.
So what kind of villains are best to 3bet light?
Well you don't want to 3bet nits light because they have a good hand a lot of the time and aren't folding.
You don't want to 3bet fish light because they're fish and don't fold pf.
You can 3bet EP raisers light but be wary about it becuase they have a much tighter range from EP so you won't get folds nearly as often.
Obviously when you 3bet you would rather 3bet in position than out of position but you can still 3bet people OOP pretty wide if you want especially if the button/cutoff opens and you are in the blinds.
What hands should you 3bet with?
Obviously big pairs an AK. I don't like 3betting small pairs because there is a ton of value in calling with them.
So on top of big pairs and AK you should be 3betting good semibluffing hands like suited connectors suited gappers, Axs etc... stuff like AJo normally is a pretty bad hand to 3bet because villain's range does very well against your hand (AK/AQ+ JJ+) and you can end up making the second best hand often pf.

Now lets assume your opponents know everythign I said above. So they start 3betting your opens wide how do you counteract that.
1. In position with good hands you can call. By good I don't mean AK+ JJ+ but also suited connectors stuff like 77-TT however I would only call sutff like this if I feel confident i am getting 3bet wide/squeezed otherwise its a spew and you should just fold pf.
2. OOP you can call sometimes if your 150bbs deep + but personally i almost never call 3bets OOP for teh most part i 4bet or fold. Now contrary to popular belief you can 4bet 100bbs deep and fold to a shove. You just need to make small 4bets so if you make it 3.5bbs villain makes it 12bbs you can make it 30bbs and fold to a shove. Now with strong hands if you 4bet you need to ccall a shove but with these stacks you can 4bet a hand like JTo and comfortably fold to a shove.
Once again we gain the immediate value of picking up the pot often and also when we have big hands we get people to stack off pf with weak hands that they normally never would. Here are a few examples of hands i played in the last few days.

Good re-post Peru. Eagles, if you read this - very nice post.

woohoo

Villain is 22/19 & pretty straight forward thus far. Only real history we have is him 3betting my BTN open & him folding to my 4bet.

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
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UTG: $97.40
Hero (CO): $185.05
BTN: $122.85
SB: $73.80
BB: $75.00

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with A A
1 fold, Hero raises to $3, BTN calls $3, 2 folds

Flop: ($7.50) 9 2 J (2 players)
Hero bets $6, BTN calls $6

Turn: ($19.50) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $15, BTN calls $15

River: ($49.50) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $36, BTN raises to $98.85 all in, Hero ?

Villain is a maniac at like 80/40 & has got his money in bad, lost a lot but recently picked up some hands & stacked a reg.

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
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Hero (SB): $125.00
BB: $93.25
UTG: $255.50
MP: $96.25
CO: $86.10
BTN: $99.50

Pre Flop: Hero is SB with A K
UTG raises to $2, 3 folds, Hero raises to $9, 1 fold, UTG calls $7

Flop: ($19.00) K J T (2 players)
Hero bets $14, UTG raises to $35, Hero ?

He had raised premium pairs & AK/AQ preflop, so I'm think his range is like: draws/semi-bluffs fairly often, KQ,KJ,KT,JT

TF -

AA hand

QT and T8 aren't really that likely. Seems like the best chance you have of being ahead on the river is if he put you on a strong hand and decided to let you try and value bet 3 streets and then shove air on the river, or he misclicked 2 or 3 times in a row.

If he decided to turn AJ into a bluff on the river is that horrible or genius?

Anyway, fold.

I only have ~50,000 hands of cash under my belt, but my impression is that leading OOP a 3rd barrell on the River to fold to a raise is leak-city (absent a very specific villan)...so...if you lead River, it's not to fold - it's pretty much to get a number of worse hands to call you/bluff-shove. It's fine if you think you can get value from Jx and maybe get T8/QT to bluff shove (especially with a little history). If he smooth-called twice with a set/J9s, power to him.

I think checking River to induce bluffs from hands like T8/QT and protect a little against slowplayed made hands is a good line to take in a lot of spots like this too, especially if it's not uncommon for you to follow up your raises with a bullet or two and give up. Chapter 21 of TOP is a good one to re-read every now and then to stay sharp in concept in these spots (which reminds me I haven't read it in a long time...). It also makes it a little tougher for some regs to call in position wider with the idea to take hands away from you when you show weakness if you check some strong hands too.

IMO

I think check-call river is fine, but there are worse hands that will call a river bet. W/o history though I don't think villain is going to bluff raise river though - and with QT and T8 being the only strong draws I think villain will slowplay a set somewhat often.

If villain has some reason to believe that hero is a wuss, then hero can't bet-fold, but otherwise river isn't going to be a bluff more than about 10% of the time I would guess.

That's taking "Villain is 22/19 & pretty straight forward thus far" into account.

And not to get too fancy and spewey, but if AA is a tough call on this River (which it is), it illustrates how effective it can be to make Turn/River plays now and then in big pots if you are the type with normally "straightforward" play and stats (especially if you play your big hands exactly the same way sometimes).

Edit: Vs. the right opponents, of couse.

Yeah, if my math is right (and it may well be wrong) and villain knows hero's cards and villain knew the hand would play this way to the river, villain should be bluffing about 14 out of 41 times here which would make it a call for hero. If villain is bluffing any less, hero should fold.

It's really close from villain's point of view though between that and bluffing 1 out of 4 times and having hero fold every time.

Of course it gets a lot more complicated if hero can have other hands.

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BB: $87.05
UTG: $25.95
MP: $56.95
CO: $53.35
BTN: $41.45
Hero (SB): $49.50

Pre Flop: Hero is SB with 9 8
UTG calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2.50, 1 fold, UTG calls $2, MP calls $2

Flop: ($8.00) Q 7 A (3 players)
Hero bets $5, UTG raises to $23.45 all in, MP folds, Hero calls $18.45

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CO: $82.40
BTN: $73.95
SB: $91.60
BB: $90.00
Hero (UTG): $70.25

Pre Flop: Hero is UTG with A A
Hero raises to $1.50, 2 folds, SB calls $1.25, BB raises to $4.50, Hero raises to $12, 1 fold, BB calls $7.50

Flop: ($25.50) 6 Q 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $18, BB calls $18

Turn: ($61.50) T (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $40.25 all in

I reraise a bit more pf cleinen, apart from that it looks fine.

Villan was playing 69/36/1.1 over ~100 hands - we've gotten into it a fair amount (I've been raising his BB from the BTN more times than not), and even with his low AF he's calls most flops against me, has bluffed once or twic that I've caught, and has over-shoved like this twice (I believe) recently postflop (I think leading once on an all-club board against me, and once when checked to on the Turn against someone else - that's my recollection) - of course he's in almost every hand, so I don't mean to give the impression that he's doing this left and right either...

Poker Stars $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
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UTG: $583.10
Hero (MP): $905.45
CO: $713.25
BTN: $405.30
SB: $435.00
BB: $1252.10

Pre Flop: Hero is MP with 8 8
1 fold, Hero raises to $13, 1 fold, BTN calls $13, 2 folds

Flop: ($32.00) T 6 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $22, BTN calls $22

Turn: ($76.00) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $370.30 all in, Hero...

The 8 is making me think hard about this...

Why are you calling the shove?
Am I missing something?

I think you're ahead fairly often vs this guy and have lots of outs if you arent. I'd call because I think his range is so wide that you probably have a pretty decent equity edge.

You probably are well aware of this, but just because his aggression factor looks low doesnt mean that he isnt aggressive. When he's playing that many hands, its usually going to be low. Also, 100 hands isnt much to judge an aggression # on anyway, and youve already seen him overbet twice.

What range do you think he has? I'm going to run some ranges through Poker Stove.

cleinen - I think the AA looks good.

the 89s
- I'd make it 6X pre.

- If the pot was $8 after that flop I'd bet more like $6 whether or not I have an A because I want it to look like I do have an A and am protecting it on a flush draw flop.

- You dont have odds to call the shove unless you think he's doing that with a lot of air hands. Your flush might not even be good if you hit and it seems very unlikely that you're ahead or even drawing to more than 9 outs. Assuming you have 9 clean outs (probably too many to assume vs most ranges), you're something like 2.86-1 to hit getting 2-1 pot odds.

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UTG: $80.25
MP: $32.00
CO: $55.25
BTN: $125.65
Hero (SB): $102.35
BB: $40.00

Pre Flop: Hero is SB with A 3
1 fold, MP calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, BTN raises to $3.50, Hero raises to $13.50, 3 folds, BTN calls $10w

Flop: ($28.50) 2 A A (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $15, Hero calls $15

Turn: ($58.50) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $35, Hero folds


villain is 26/18/1.8 over 250 hands.

i dont particularly like squeezing here w/ A3s but villain had been isolating wide enough to make it profitable. i havent been 3betting him a lot so he has no reason to think i'm FOS. his bet speed on the flop and turn were pretty quick so i don't think i'm seeing monsters.

i could see him flatting my squeeze w/ bigger aces etc.blaaaaa. his low aggr made me feel ok with folding

Dude - folding your hand here made the Iowa levee system feel good about it's leakiness. WOW. Apologies for the harshness. You'll be outkicked sometimes, but you're getting lots of action from crushed hands here

You realize (a) There's one Ace in the deck (do some range combos), (b) your opponent sees the two Aces on the board; and (c) you've repped a non-Ace big pair pretty hard with your 3-bet check-call. Either ship the Turn or C/C and donk River.

no way in hell man. He could also be bluffing, valuebetting QQ/KK, no way you fold the turn when you squeeze in an obvious spot and then check the flop with trips. If you're checking it's because you want him to bet, or at least it should be.

Needs 2:1, has 1.95:1, and gambling is fun.

Pretty standard. Have fun stacking KK and maybe JhJx or AQ. If he has QQ, nothing you can do.

Meh. While this could be a bluff or semibluff (with something like AsX) I think I'd fold without having more of a read on this guy than you do. I think a lot of his range is 7x.

Obviously pay close attention to this guy, I have a feeling like he's the type of player who will be super easy to play against after half an hour at the table. I know it's a cash game and you should take +EV spots when you see them - the problem is, we really have no idea yet if this is a +EV spot vs. this guy and even if it is, I think it's likely to be close. So while I wouldn't normally say to wait for a better spot in a cash game - wait for a better spot. It shouldn't take long to find one vs. a 69/36 who has a tendency to overbet shove.

One final thing to consider in the 88 Gramps, you're deep. And even though fish isn't, there's probably some merit to saving a 225 BB stack in the event that he stacks someone.

If our stack were $400 or $1200 I'd actually like calling slightly more. In the $700 - $900 range, I like it slightly less.

Only slightly. This isn't the largest factor for me at all, but just one more detail to think about.

"could see him flatting my squeeze w/ bigger aces etc."

Could you see him flatting with other hands? Could you see him taking stabs when you check 2 streets (repping pretty much a range of TT-KK and weak aces)? Could you see him going for value with KK?

Never would fold this...

I guess the silver lining is that this is a spot I like playing from behind in. So I like both your checks. Just locate the call button now and click it.