STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 - Page 2 - MTT Poker Strategy

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STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

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12-10-2007 , 08:08 PM

#26

DevinLake

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 17,024

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kä²°ä®¥n

Initial raiser is a TAG who folds to 3bets 93% of the time. Flat caller is 37/3/2.7 who NEVER 3bets. Sample sizes are 1000k hands. The c/r AI was INSTANT. Checkraise % is 5.

http://www.holdemranger.com/realtime.html
NL Holdem $1(BB) I-Poker Game#754408509

shakinhands ($154.65)
Edmuntus ($104.50)
Zigauner ($139.55)
Firetribe ($100)
Locutus1 ($95.50)

shakinhands posts (SB) $0.50
Edmuntus posts (BB) $1

Dealt to Firetribe Jc Ad
Zigauner raises to $3
Firetribe raises to $10.50
fold, call, fold, fold,

FLOP ($25) 4h Jh 2d
check,
Firetribe bets $18
shakinhands raises all-in to $144.15
Firetribe?

I snap call. You have top top. These guys will over value top pair a tonne here.

Quote

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12-10-2007 , 08:09 PM

#27

DevinLake

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 17,024

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kä²°ä®¥n

Villain is 30/13/3.3 ober 600 datamined hands. Hero has no image (as far as i know).

http://www.holdemranger.com/realtime.html
NL Holdem $1(BB) I-Poker Game#754478078

Emanuelsson ($22.63)
b4ifuru17 ($99)
Zappa51 ($166.50)
Firetribe ($124.93)
j4ckj4ck ($86.06)

Emanuelsson posts (SB) $0.50
b4ifuru17 posts (BB) $1

Dealt to Firetribe T

fold,
Firetribe raises to $3.50
call, fold, fold,

FLOP ($8.50) 2

Firetribe bets $6.50
j4ckj4ck calls $6.50

TURN ($21.50) 4

check,
j4ckj4ck bets $12
Firetribe calls $12

RIVER ($45.50) 6

check,
j4ckj4ck bets $25
Firetribe calls $25

I'd fold the river. It's hard to imagine that he'd be doing with with the 7d or 2pr or a set.

Quote

12-10-2007 , 08:14 PM

#28

DevinLake

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 17,024

Quote:

Originally Posted by GtrHtr

the bb is a station, so in a fishbowl without additional information I'd find another table or I'd fold both 63s and K2o and tighten up my range assuming the table is too good to leave.

Why would you want to leave the table with the bb being a station? I can see if the sb was too, but I love when the BB is a station cause he'll be most stationy out of the BB and I'll always have position on him.

K2o and 63s are some pretty crap hands. But, I with futuredoc. With a complete calling station I'd rather have the hand that has some high card value. Against people that can fold, i want the hand that gives us more semi-bluffing potential like 63s.

Basically, if I have a very bad player in the BB when I have the Button. I want to play lots of raised post with the villain.

Quote

12-10-2007 , 08:18 PM

#29

DevinLake

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 17,024

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeMcQ1

Play fairly tight, raise for value; bluff like never; limp behind in position with a lot of hands like small-medium PP, SC even two gappers, especially when the big stacks are in the hand;

This seems fine. I'd over limp a lot of unsuited connectors and one gappers as well.

When the game gets deeper though, I tend to play SCs more aggro in position for a couple reasons. One, they play well post flop and will give you lots of semi-bluffing opportunities and second, I don't want to get stacked by Axs of the same suite.

Last edited by DevinLake; 12-10-2007 at 08:55 PM.

Quote

12-10-2007 , 08:54 PM

#30

futuredoc85

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 11,150

karp check hand 1 against a cold-caller

Quote

12-10-2007 , 08:55 PM

#31

Slim Pickens

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,487

SB just sat down. No history between us.

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $32.25
SB: $100.50
Hero (BB): $145.45
UTG: $100.00
MP: $100.00
CO: $83.60

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with 3

4 folds, SB raises to $3, Hero raises to $13, SB calls $10

Flop: ($26.00) T

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $20, SB calls $20

Turn: ($66.00) 6

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($66.00) J

(2 players)
SB bets $19, Hero considers shoving

Quote

12-10-2007 , 08:57 PM

#32

GtrHtr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,449

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinLake

I said I'd leave the table or tighten up my range

Quote

12-10-2007 , 08:58 PM

#33

DevinLake

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 17,024

The obvious answer is to fold. With no history, I can't really see shoving there. Looks like a blocking bet, but it can also be just a donk that doesn't know how to size his bets.

Why are you over potting it pre ip?

Quote

12-10-2007 , 09:05 PM

#34

JL514

because i can

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 9,828

Slim: As played I could see villain pairing his Js -- without any read on him I'd probably just fold.. no way of knowing whether he'll have the sense to fold his J for $50 more

Quote

12-10-2007 , 10:19 PM

#35

Pudge714

Modding All Day

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 39,102

Slim I don't really like three betting pre and I hate the sizing if you make it 9 that is pot.
I would check back that flop some percent of the time because it crushes his range.
Once I get to the river you can only really rep straights and I guess JJ and weird AJ, TJ, 9J. The thing is if you can shove TJ on the river you can't really bluff here because that means he is going to have one pair and call with it.l I think he is making stupid blocker with like QJ or spades enough to make it okay, but reads would be nice and at 100nl making complex bluffs vs. unknown is probably bad since people don't like folding.

Quote

12-10-2007 , 10:45 PM

#36

ManChild

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,061

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudge714

I would check back that flop some percent of the time because it crushes his range.

The thing is if you can shove TJ on the river you can't really bluff here because that means he is going to have one pair and call with it.

at 100nl making complex bluffs vs. unknown is probably bad since people don't like folding.

all good points

Quote

12-11-2007 , 12:15 AM

#37

Jbrochu

banned

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16,052

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josem

I was ordered to make a new thread.

And to start it off, a slightly theoretical discussion to settle an argument:

You are on the button. Effective stack sizes are 100bb, in a SSNL cash game.

The small blind plays 29/9. The big blind plays 43/20. All players fold to you on the button.

In this theoretical situation, you have a choice of your cards - you can either have (a) K2o or (b) 63s. Which do you choose? (or option C - it doesn't matter 'cause you fold either way)

I would normally choose option C and fold them both.

If the blinds were tighter I would fold K2o and raise 63s, unless I had been abusing the hell out of my button, in which case I would just fold them both.

Quote

12-11-2007 , 05:23 AM

#38

Kä²°ä®¥n

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5,924

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeMcQ1

Is 3-betting a TAG with AJo standard or is this for your shania

He was folding to 3bets 93% of the time, i hadnt 3bet before and blah blah i lose damnit

Quote

12-11-2007 , 05:25 AM

#39

Kä²°ä®¥n

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5,924

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudge714

Karp

Hand 2 is a fold most peoples flop calling range are pairs or big diamonds they usually just try to get showdown with pair. I might bet fold the turn and if he calls a turn bet c/f river.

not wanting to be a nit but is that bet/fold river or check/fold river?

Quote

12-11-2007 , 05:49 AM

#40

Kä²°ä®¥n

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5,924

Villain is unknown.

Locutus1 ($120.85)
Nimsay1 ($110.12)
shakinhands ($188.50)
bigkeith ($26.23)
Zigauner ($139.40)
Hero ($132.85)

Locutus1 posts (SB) $0.50
Nimsay1 posts (BB) $1

Dealt to Hero 9d 9h
call, call, fold,
Hero raises to $5.50
fold, fold, fold, call,

FLOP ($13.50) Ks 5c Th
check,
Hero's plan for the hand?

(villain limp-called pre and checked on flop, hero has position)

Quote

12-11-2007 , 05:51 AM

#41

blackize

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 10,519

Karp, be careful using stats like 93% folds to 3bet. You first need to separate folds to 3bets into 'folds to 3bets OOP' and 'folds to 3bets IP' the two drastically different types of 3bet pots come up infrequently enough that you really need a few thousand hands to start getting a good idea of a player's actual range.

Quote

12-11-2007 , 06:46 AM

#42

Kä²°ä®¥n

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5,924

TILT

Villain is 45/15/3.2 over 300 hands

http://www.holdemranger.com/realtime.html
NL Holdem $1(BB) I-Poker Game#754888204

grinsekatze ($105.60)
Bigmighty ($100)
KingJames2323 ($150.85)
Sockerfri ($153.85)
bondigirl ($144.80)
Firetribe ($136.10)

grinsekatze posts (SB) $0.50
Bigmighty posts (BB) $1

Dealt to Firetribe 9

fold, fold, call,
Firetribe raises to $4.50
fold, fold, call,

FLOP ($10.50) 5

check,
Firetribe bets $7.50
bondigirl calls $7.50

TURN ($25.50) K

check,
Firetribe bets $18
bondigirl raises to $40
Firetribe calls $22

RIVER ($105.50) 6

bondigirl bets $45
Firetribe calls $45

Quote

12-11-2007 , 06:49 AM

#43

Kä²°ä®¥n

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5,924

TILT #2

Villain is unknown

Aussie6330 ($82.50)
truemp ($147.60)
Ampelio ($100)
Firetribe ($102.75)
Parsy ($125)
2600 ($109.05)

Aussie6330 posts (SB) $0.50
truemp posts (BB) $1

Dealt to Firetribe Kc Kd
fold,
Firetribe raises to $3.50
fold, fold, call, fold,

FLOP ($8) Qh 9s Ad
Aussie6330 bets $3
Firetribe calls $3

TURN ($14) Qh 9s Ad Ac
Aussie6330 bets $3
Firetribe calls $3

RIVER ($20) Qh 9s Ad Ac 6h
check,
Firetribe bets $10
Aussie6330 raises all-in to $73
Firetribe folds

Aussie6330 wins $101
wins $101

Quote

12-11-2007 , 07:43 AM

#44

dipstikdave

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,181

villain is 18/10/1.4 over 180 hands.

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $115.50
BTN: $55.00
SB: $19.90
BB: $182.20
UTG: $77.40
Hero (MP): $257.50

Pre Flop: Hero is MP with K

1 fold, Hero raises to $5, 2 folds, SB calls $4.50, BB calls $4

Flop: ($15.00) 7

(3 players)
SB bets $3, BB calls $3, Hero raises to $25, SB calls $11.90 all in, BB raises to $78, Hero

Quote

12-11-2007 , 07:51 AM

#45

Josem

human chemical weapon

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 18,276

dsd,

you've said you've got a big hand at every opportunity, and everything points to villain having a bigger hand. so fold - i don't think villain does that with KT or 9T as much as trips.

Quote

12-11-2007 , 11:42 AM

#46

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 101,163

Dammit I was on my way to the biggest thread in 2p2 history (by like 2012). Bastards. You might at least put a link to the old one at the top of this one, in case people want to study up or something.

Quote

12-11-2007 , 12:08 PM

#47

Slim Pickens

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Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by dipstikdave

1 fold, Hero raises to $5, 2 folds, SB calls $4.50, BB calls $4

Flop: ($15.00) 7

(3 players)
SB bets $3, BB calls $3, Hero raises to $25, SB calls $11.90 all in, BB raises to $78, Hero

An 18/10/1.4 player could play AQ that way. You're only a 56/44 dog to {77,JJ,QQ,KK,AQ,QJ}. His play looks strong, but it could also be a decent draw like KT some of the time as well. I can't really think of a turn card where I'm getting away. I can't really put a hand in his range that folds to a push that might continue to bluff later in the hand if you just call. SB always has something stupid. Uh... I hate cash.

Quote

12-11-2007 , 07:13 PM

#48

Slim Pickens

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Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,487

BTN is a nitty regular: 17/13/3.9 over 441 hands and I don't have any specific notes on him raising flops light. Note we're 150 BB deep to start. If we're 100 BB deep, I just shove the flop.

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (CO): $141.70
BTN: $147.50
SB: $23.50
BB: $91.80
UTG: $110.85

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with 6

1 fold, Hero raises to $4, BTN calls $4, SB calls $3.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($13.00) 8

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $10, BTN raises to $30, SB folds, Hero ???

Quote

12-11-2007 , 07:39 PM

#49

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 58,738

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josem

dsd,

you've said you've got a big hand at every opportunity, and everything points to villain having a bigger hand. so fold - i don't think villain does that with KT or 9T as much as trips.

Yeah, and he's tight and he's somewhat passive and you've got another 90bbs or so behind.

Quote

12-11-2007 , 07:54 PM

#50

futuredoc85

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Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 11,150

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim Pickens

1 fold, Hero raises to $4, BTN calls $4, SB calls $3.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($13.00) 8

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $10, BTN raises to $30, SB folds, Hero ???

shove it anyway, or raise/call it or whatever. He has a set so much more often than anything else and too many turn cards will let him consider getting away from it.