I have 15k back, pot is 12.4k... what to do? c/f? b/f? shove? ughhh...

You should shove pre.

As played I guess you can bet really small ~2500-3000, drawing to your 4 outer for cheap if someone calls and fold if someone doesn't believe you. Probably c/f future streets unless hand improves though.

In my opinion you should have raised to at least 5K pre flop, would have *hopefully* chased out those people holding KTo, J10o, and Q10o.

But in any case, I would make a bet of about half the pot. maybe a little less. probably around 4500. if someone called the raise holding AK, AQ, AJ then they probably can get away from the hand.

Why would you want to chase out any of those hands? They are hands against which you're a small favourite, with a nice overlay in the middle already, making it a nicely profitable situation in the long term.


Anyway, just shove pre imo. Avoids having to negotiate potentially awkward multiway pots oop.

re: shoving pre in this spot.

with 18bb utg, what are the worst hands you will shove with pre here?
at how many bbs do you start raising here (rather than open-shoving) with 99 utg?

(at 15bb or less i think i shove here 100%. at 18bb or so tho, i feel like i can make it 2.5x and either fold to/call shoves based on villain stats/position. Maybe this is getting a bit fancy?)

With antes and no stacksize irregularities (none too big, none too small), I think 88+, AJs+, AQ+, KQs. Of course this is subject to change with my table image, how tight/loose the table is, stacksizes etc.

<20bb (with antes) <15 (without antes)

Yeah problem is most villains have no idea that you are only 18bb deep and probably have a decent hand and end up flatting with a wide range (of junk). While that is not bad in itself, it's not easy to play postflop with 99 and 10-15bb behind vs more than 1 player.

pre is fine, i'd even make it 2.2x. even if half the table or all of them calls we are fine, if someone shoves we are obv calling.

check flop and go from there vs too much action fold.

Yeah I'm fine with opening pre instead of shoving, flop is horrible but I think we're either c/jam, c/c or c/f depending on villain and betsizing. Betting commits us vs a raise, and no-one's raising this flop multiway unless they have us beat.

start to check it down... fold to a bet.
open shoving preflop makes loose value.
I would shove 14 K stack with something like 55+, AT+, A9s+, KJs+,

I would shove pre with this stack size. I really dont like the idea of raising pre here and then having to give up post flop, leaving only 15bb's behind.

Pre shove versus raise is whatever. Everyone has their own thoughts/ranges on this stuff. Don't get me started.

Pre is fine. Flop is shove or c/f. Obviously not the best flop for 99, but could be farrrr worse, and there is no hand that will call that you're dead against.

Can someone please tell me why folding isn't an option. I think playing 99 with 20 BB you play for set value more than anything else and I think this is an example of a bad spot. I think an argument can b made for folding pre and waiting to play the bttn/ CO aggressively rather than playing a marginal hand OOP... Thoughts?

It's impossible to have sufficient implied odds to setmine at 20bb. You shouldn't be playing anything for set value at this stack size.

You play 99 at 20bb because it's the sixth best starting hand in no limit hold 'em, it's not a marginal hand. Folding pre here would be burning money.

I do think I like jamming more the more I think about it - unless there are some hyper-lags behind us we're pretty likely to get flatted sometimes and end up in crappy spots like these.

It's not a marginal hand, but it plays marginally postflop.

Folding here pre though is simply irresponsible. Raise or shove. As played, like I said, shove flop.

very helpful guys.

for those who haven't watched the replay to see what i actually did...

Flop: (12400.00, 4 players) 6 7 T
Hero bets 15,271.00 and is all-in, fold, LP calls 15,271.00, CO raises to 30,542.00, LP raises to 42,679.00 and is all-in, CO calls 12,137.00

Turn: (113029.00, 3 players) Q

River: (113029.00, 3 players) K

LP shows 9 8 (Straight, Ten High) (PreFlop 13%, Flop 59%, Turn 73%)
CO shows T T (Three of a Kind, Tens) (PreFlop 76%, Flop 36%, Turn 24%)
Hero shows 9 9 (One Pair, Nines) (PreFlop 11%, Flop 5%, Turn 4%)
LP wins 113,029.00

So yeah, first to act, i decided to shove the flop for a little more than pot. (Obviously ran into a couple of monsters - top set and a flopped straight but whatever...)

I think my rationale at the time was:
- this is far from the worst flop for 99, gutshot and only one overcard
- my utg raise with 18bb stack should look strong
- if i had an overpair in this spot (JJ-QQ), i think i would probably shove this flop given draws, risk of overcards coming

I'm still slightly torn between shoving and checking. I doubt that i'll be able to ever get to free showdown given multiple opponents, and there are not many good cards that can come for me on future streets. So a check is most likely a check fold/give up.

If the board had no overcards, eg 864, does this become an easy shove with little more than a pot-sized bet left against multiple opponents?

your table should dictate this. if you have a splashier table then shoving > raising.

reads on the table are huge here.

The shove pre versus raise pre debate is basically what's going on here itt. Some people are quite comfortable about playing this post flop after a small raise on the right table, while others will always shove for simplicity, but if you don't like playing OOP post, then folding shouldn't be an option simply because a shove will show a profit.

shove pre.

as played, shove flop.