have not been at the table especially long but villan has been pretty active...

don't think the flat is too strong

was a three bet better even this deep?

flop standard?

ugh


Poker Stars $10+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t800/t1600 Blinds + t200 - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

In It 2 Win (UTG+1): t70579 M = 16.80
sombreroloco (UTG+2): t48345 M = 11.51
Ducky G 6000 (MP1): t19990 M = 4.76
vV-Freak-Zz (MP2): t29030 M = 6.91
luka1979 (CO): t26712 M = 6.36
chrigi24 (BTN): t54250 M = 12.92
anglo63 (SB): t102084 M = 24.31
Hero (BB): t82005 M = 19.52
TAPP1031 (UTG): t102675 M = 24.45

Pre Flop: (t4200) Hero is BB with T T
TAPP1031 raises to t4800, 4 folds, luka1979 calls t4800, 2 folds, Hero calls t3200

Flop: (t17000) 3 6 Q (3 players)
Hero checks, TAPP1031 bets t9600, luka1979 folds, Hero folds

Flop is standard after you flat pre.

3b/calling is not good this deep so your only option other than flatting would be like 16.5k -> get it in with luka and fold to an UTG jam. The problem with this is that UTG can flat any of his monsters (or random crap if he's bad) knowing luka is prob just gonna stick it in with anything and put you in a bad spot, so I think I like a flat pre.

I like the flat pre. I would never consider 3betting in that spot with the stack sizes. Flop is pretty standard.

These kind of spots I like to figure out what will I do if the player bets and the other guy shoves which usually happens.

Such as,Q high flop, UTG c-bets, short stack shoves, you fold.

UTG calls and shows 88-JJ, AQ, sometimes 77, AK sometimes worse... its an $11 buyin after all.

So... What do you do? 3bet pre and hope UTG folds and short stack shoves you call and hope your not racing...

Or, you do the call folding thing. Honestly, I've been doing the 3b pre, 2.5xbb ish folding to a 4b from UTG calling a shove from the short stack. Seems kinda weird that the short stack is flatting in this spot but it is a $11 tournament after all. He could have AA but he could have a lot worse.

Forgot the worst situation is 3b and UTG just flats with a monster, short stack shoves u call, and UTG comes over the top or flats and you get a 9 high flop or lower... Is UTG going to flat your 3b with worse than TT or just call with better JJ+ and AK?

Keep in mind that this advice is coming from a thinking super aggro player.

When I build huge chip stacks I turn the aggression way up opening tons of pots. I do not mind seeing flops and trying to outplay my opponet after the flop. With this being said my advice is coming as if I were the UTG player.

This may seem a little out there, but when I am in UTG with a large stack I like opening a rather wide range for a few reasons A) I think most players will give me too much credit B) Semi-deep stacks are going to hesitate to 3bet because of my stack and my "perceived" UTG range.

I think some of the time I am folding to a 3bet and some of the time I am stealing the blinds, but most of the times I will just get flatted and can cbet most flops because of my "perceived" range.

If I was UTG I think a 3 bet pre is the best play. You are going to find out where your 1010 is very fast. If I get 3bet here, especially by someone else with a deeper stack then I am very rarely flatting and playing oop. So I am either 4betting or folding. If I am 4betting I have the top end of my range. So by 3betting you are more likely to win the pot or get away from the hand with minimal loses......if you flat with 1010 and I get that flop I am cbetting there and now you are in a marginal situation and I marginal situations are where people usually spew most of their chips.

I say 3bet.....fold to a 4bet.....and be very scared of a flat.

I hope this makes sense. I've been lurking forums for years and studying this game pretty hardcore for years and am just getting back into playing online seriously so I may points may not come across as clearly as I was intending.

If you got any ?'s let me know and I'll try to explain some more. I think there are a lot of ways to play each hand and am just throwing out my thoughts.

nh

i don't think it's mandatory to flat pre, and i don't think it's mandatory to fold flop to a lag villain at all. i'm not saying you have to 3bet or call or raise flop, but everyone itt so far acts like this is a standard hand.

I don't think there is ever a "standard" hand when the players are deep stacked.

Having a stack gives both players many ways to play the hand. I don't think OP is looking for what is the "standard play" here, but just general info on how others would play it. At least that's why I gave my response.

I def think forum members give too much into the whole "standard" play for situations. I mean if everything was so standard a lot more people would be playing the game for a living.

Very rarely is anything in poker ever "standard" IMO.

x

If you actually read what I posted I said when both players are deep stacked.

I agree when stacks are not both deep that there are "standard" shoves.

Also, was not talking about you directly when talking about people giving too much into the whole "standard" way to play a hand. So don't take it personal.

Guess it is hard to get some points across on the interwebz

and I was actually agreeing with you in what yuo said abuot people acting as if certain plays were mandatory.....i.e. Standard

my point is that there is a STANDARD way to play every hand no matter what stacks are. your point, i think, is that the standard play is not always optimal. this is obviously true given table dynamics and ours and other's images. i don't want to spew this thread with irrelevant banter though.

if by standard you mean playing like a robot then all means go for it....I just think it is better to think outside of the box rather then just give the same lame ass advice all the time

but I will agree with you on not wanting to spew the thread.....so I'll call it quits.

I think its a fairly decent flop for you to at least peel one.

Pre is std.

yea my thoughts, peeling one seems fine but again folding is fine too. on Kxx i prolly fold

No support for leading into the utg raiser?

with any two? TT is too valuable to bet/Fold

Why do you guys like peeling? He cbet into 2 people knowing that luka has like 20k back, so he has to call a shove from him, and most turns suck for us.

Grunching because a lot of responses are long: I'm probably peeling one but mullen makes a good point.