Stars $109 20K...3 bet folding a pair BVB - MTT Poker Strategy

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Stars $109 20K...3 bet folding a pair BVB

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03-16-2011 , 10:11 AM

ssnyc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 38,129

have not been at table long...villan seems reasonably aggro but have not seen a lot of hands.

I made a thread like this a while ago and got a wide variety of answers and discussion on pre.

Do you prefer flatting vs a random or is 3 bet fold better?

Poker Stars, $100 Buy-in (50/100 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #8252102

UTG+1: 5,067 (50.7 bb)
UTG+2: 4,214 (42.1 bb)
MP1: 4,250 (42.5 bb)
MP2: 2,865 (28.7 bb)
MP3: 3,271 (32.7 bb)
CO: 4,919 (49.2 bb)
BTN: 2,200 (22 bb)
SB: 4,070 (40.7 bb)
Hero (BB): 3,730 (37.3 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3

7 folds, SB raises to 200, Hero raises to 500, SB raises to 4,070 and is all-in, Hero folds

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

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03-16-2011 , 10:13 AM

Texas Chuck

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 6,237

Folding might be the best option....

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03-16-2011 , 10:16 AM

ssnyc

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Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 38,129

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Chuck

Folding might be the best option....

to the min open in position BVB? I suggested that once and was flamed mercilessly

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03-16-2011 , 10:21 AM

furo

deviation of equilibrium

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 29,639

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Chuck

Folding might be the best option....

like, not calling the 100, and not raising, folding?

i'd prolly flat with position ss, prepared to spew some postflop.

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03-16-2011 , 10:25 AM

dereds

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,782

I'd rather flat like our hand plays pretty rubbish postflop but we have position against a wide range, OOP prob just folding though may be convinced if someone wants to argue 3b/f

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03-16-2011 , 10:26 AM

ssnyc

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Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 38,129

ton of discussion on similar spot here

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/18...e-spot-907294/

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03-16-2011 , 10:29 AM

desperad0oo7

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Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 9,471

if you think he's lose here I think I prefer your line. If he's tight then I think there is more value in set mining + IP play.

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03-16-2011 , 12:24 PM

cicakman

banned

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9,229

lol if you have a read hes aggro then im not folding

if you do 3b then dont fold. just flat initially

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03-16-2011 , 12:32 PM

teddyrowe9

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,432

open folding shouldn't even be considered.

i don't really see a point in 3-bet/folding. if we had like A3, sure, go for it, but i'd just take my pair and set mine / see a turn depending on flop part of the time.

3b/fold > 3b/call though...calling now would be pretty awful.

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03-16-2011 , 12:32 PM

#10

jjyykk

now YugiohPro

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 9,399

Flat initially and make plays on a lot of boards. 3b/f here is atrocious. Would much rather do it with a blocker like q4o or something

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03-16-2011 , 06:33 PM

#11

Texas Chuck

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 6,237

uh cicak and teddy him being aggro makes folding way better than flatting and its not close.

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03-16-2011 , 06:38 PM

#12

emrmoss

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 99

still think flatting ip is best here

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03-16-2011 , 06:38 PM

#13

ssnyc

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Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 38,129

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Chuck

uh cicak and teddy him being aggro makes folding way better than flatting and its not close.

agreed...people misunderstand set mining way too much...if as others have said we are planning to use our position to make post flop moves that is different. The same ole question applies tho...if we are going to turn our hand into a bluff potentially are we calling ATC with position?

I agree if dude is really nitty we can set mine here better than if he is aggro

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03-16-2011 , 07:04 PM

#14

jjyykk

now YugiohPro

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 9,399

Well ss I think it's kind of insulting for regulars to be minraising you OOP. I would be flatting a very wide range vs villains like that (any two suited cards probably) and probably 3 betting my crappiest hands with blocker value.

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03-16-2011 , 07:09 PM

#15

cicakman

banned

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9,229

Chuck folding to the minraise or When he shoves or both?

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03-16-2011 , 07:10 PM

#16

Texas Chuck

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 6,237

to the minraise obv.

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03-16-2011 , 08:40 PM

#17

Fish_On_Tilt

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,662

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Chuck

uh cicak and teddy him being aggro makes folding way better than flatting and its not close.

Sorry I dont get this, especially how it cannot even be close.
He is aggro we have position we can play postflop/hand read etc.
I have no idea how turning our hand into a bluff can that clearly be the supreme option here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mement_mori

not a single player in the world I wouldnt just call against here.

I'm in this camp(from ssnyc's link posted) and not sure how this hand is any different.

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03-16-2011 , 08:47 PM

#18

mullen

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Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 17,558

god please just call this is like the same thread as the other one

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03-16-2011 , 08:52 PM

#19

desperad0oo7

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Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 9,471

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish_On_Tilt

our hand SUCKS. we might as well flat with garbage there since 90% of the time you're not going to flop **** and then have to somehow get to river against an aggro player. Ultimately you're going to have to play him rather than your hand so we aren't exactly wasting value by 3bet/folding it. His range is also wide so even when we hit a set he's not going to stack off that often.

I saw the other thread and I disagree with mement's comment about no player in the world ..

plus, you aint mement_mori

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03-16-2011 , 08:54 PM

#20

phos77

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 5,496

ya flat

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03-16-2011 , 09:43 PM

#21

jchauvin

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Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,761

i think 3b/f is at least better than 3b/c, which just seems like a direct application to clown college, but either way i'm flatting always.

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03-16-2011 , 09:44 PM

#22

desperad0oo7

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Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 9,471

Fwiw, I think both calling and 3bet/folding vs a lag are both fine and I decide based on dynamics at the time. I just think that some of the reasoning itt is backwards and has little to do with making a flat >>3 bet/fold vs this particular guy. It isn't much different from 3bet/folding A3o imo. With one you have blocker value and the other you have set value. neither of these value is that great and I think the cancel each other out.

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03-16-2011 , 10:40 PM

#23

tboneparte

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,378

I really don't mind 3b/f at all. idk how 3b/c can be better than 3b/f here. Like hes gonna fold a decent amount and if he just flats we have control of the hand. If we are flatting to float flop cbets and play tricky when we don't flop anything I don't really like it at all and prefer 3b/f. I prefer flat if we are just gonna play super standard post.

flat>3b/f>3b/c

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03-16-2011 , 11:09 PM

#24

qazikm2000

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Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5,677

40BB no antes I believe flat is to be correct.

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03-17-2011 , 01:10 AM

#25

stevepa

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,812

ssync, two things from skimming the thread you linked:
1) you vastly overrate both position and your ability to read hands 40bb deep in a 3b pot
2) you vastly underrate how important it is that you flop a set 12% of the time

Anyways, I would call vs everyone, continuing when I flop a set and on a few but not really that many other boards. If you think you should be 3betting really wide here, that's fine, but this is a terrible hand to choose for it, both because it has no blockers and it doesn't play well with shallower effective stacks

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