Full Tilt Poker Game #28304378570: $12,500 Guarantee (1r+1a) (219853752), Table 15 - 1200/2400 Ante 300 - No Limit Hold'em - 06:04:46 ET - 2011/02/18
Seat 2: Mrpimpstr9 (26,742)
Seat 4: dan_two_k (28,689)
Seat 5: Mustashiono (34,320)
Seat 6: djames88 (88,096)
Seat 7: HERO (38,037)
Seat 8: JailedFISHY (172,907)
Seat 9: ManchVegasPwn (54,576)
Mrpimpstr9 antes 300
dan_two_k antes 300
Mustashiono antes 300
djames88 antes 300
HERO antes 300
JailedFISHY antes 300
ManchVegasPwn antes 300
Mrpimpstr9 posts the small blind of 1,200
dan_two_k posts the big blind of 2,400
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [8h 8c]
Mustashiono folds
djames88 foldS
HERO.....???

Should I just open shove or make it like 5500??

yea std raise it and call a shove, fold if two nits 3bet/4bet

Is open shoving bad? Why or why not?

its not bad at all, especially when you dont need to balance your ranges or it is totally readless or they will call your shove very light.

in a vacuum:
in this case however it is better since both blinds are at ~12BB and will continue with a wider range vs a raise than they will call a shove with.

its also better if you recently r/f before.
shoving can be better if you have an crazy image and shoved tons of hands last orbit and they will look you up light


you should give more information about the table dynamics.

I raised once in the last two orbits and everyone folded. The big stack has been taking flops pretty light (around 30 vpip iirc). Everyone else has been playing pretty ABC considering the stack sizes.

just jam

prob just yikking and r/cing 99+ aq+

i think raise/call is better than shove

uh we dont want to be inducing with 88---just jam

furo--blinds really shouldnt have a flatting range so that seems irrelevant

thats exactly what i want

not sure i understand, them not having a flatting range is what we want and if they have one its also fine cause 88 > whatever they flat.

like what hands will they shove with (maybe they think they have FE?) and whats their calling range vs us in this spot if we shove?

easy jam

furo,

i dont mind taking a flip with our stack either but we profit more when everyone folds. and yeah 88 is ahead of their flatting range but there are flops where we are gonna want to fold and/or have a tough time getting stacks in ahead.

Jamming here. Jamming 9s too. Prob start r/c'ing at tens.

i know the math on jamming a mid pair here and while it is profitable i disagree that is it the holy grail since it just lets not make them any mistakes vs our actual hand unless we have a spazzy image which OP does not have.

after all we play vs ranges and i dont expect them to call with smaller pairs than 88 or even worse like ATo/KJs or whatever.

i dont get the fear of a 55:45 flipping if they shove KQo/AJo which is just a part of their range anyway cause if they shove these hands shoving 55-77 seem likely for them as well and maybe even wider.

obv if we have to balance the shoving range vs regs with some mid pairs to not let them call too wide i like the shove as well. but isolating this spot i think we lose value with shoving a hand as strong as 88 here.

i gets interesting if they start folding 99/AQ, pretty optimistic tho.

I'm jamming but what's your image like op? Have you opened or shoved recently or just lost a hand or anything extra?

furo

ur calling ranges for villians are way too tight for this mtt

what do you think they call the shove with?

dont you think they will continue with more combinations vs a minraise?

tbh, furo they will likely continue with fewer--see chuck bass thread

I very much disagree with this, people in the 30c wont shove light over what I guess is a TAGs minraise <20bb eff from MP

Also agree with rmthawk that TT is where I start considering r/calling

I would say I have a tight image. In the last 2 orbits, I raised once from MP and took it down, as well as shoving 16 BB's BvB and taking it down.

In this situation I decided to shove. My main reason for doing so is I didn't want to get flatted by the active big stack and put myself in a tricky post-flop spot OOP. However, I think this is a pretty common situation where jamming and raising are very close. How many chips do we need before we start raise/calling?

Furo, the majority of replies are saying jam but you raise some interesting points in favor of raise-calling. I'm curious. How many fewer chips do we need for you to be in favor of jamming instead of raising? 30,000? 25,000?

i (and most other players who dont pushbot with these stacksizes) dont have a r/f range from this position with shorter stacks, so there is no other option than shoving with ~13BB or less.

i (and most other players who dont pushbot with these stacksizes) dont have a r/f range from this position with shorter stacks, so there is no other option than shoving with ~13BB or less.

i (and most other players who dont pushbot with these stacksizes) dont have a r/f range from this position with shorter stacks, so there is no other option than shoving with ~13BB or less.

i (and most other players who dont pushbot with these stacksizes) dont have a r/f range from this position with shorter stacks, so there is no other option than shoving with ~13BB or less.

i (and most other players who dont pushbot with these stacksizes) dont have a r/f range from this position with shorter stacks, so there is no other option than shoving with ~13BB or less.